Are you required to use water resistant sheetrock in a kitchen?

[zannej]

Snoopyb, I didn't say the person could win if they went to court, but they could at least present it in court for consideration. Whether or not it would change anything depends on the judge. It would be more prudent to get letters from the inspector as well as other contractors to assess the mistakes and try to prove that the job was not done properly though. If a person actually goes to the court hearing they can contest the lien. Whether or not they succeed, is again up to their evidence and the judge.

While I am not a lawyer or a contractor, I would like to know why you think it is "bologna" that the contractor would not have to use the material that the OP agreed upon using and was charged for?

I know that as a homeowner, if I paid for specific materials to be used and the contractor screwed up, I would expect them to use the same materials I had already paid for to replace it. If the job had been done right in the first place, the homeowner would still have the material they wanted and paid for.

 

[merk]

Snoopyb, I don't think I've met anyone before who can so quickly condemn someone for not being as perfect as you must be.

I assume you do your own dentistry since it would just be lazy to hire someone else to do that for you right?

As to some of the other more constructive comments...

CBS is coming over next week to interview me about this.

The letter that was sent was just a notice. It hasn't been recorded yet. Based on this guys behavior, I don't think he'll do anything that actually leads us to court because his goal at this point is to hide what he does. I'm not the only person they have done this to.

 

[Snoonyb]

Snoopyb, I didn't say the person could win if they went to court, but they could at least present it in court for consideration.

Which has nothing to do with reality and would be unnecessarily burdensome.

Whether or not it would change anything depends on the judge. It would be more prudent to get letters from the inspector as well as other contractors to assess the mistakes and try to prove that the job was not done properly though.

To what end?

The project is already finished, so the OP should further fiscally encumber himself?

Contractors charge for this service, both as an independent or under an attny. umbrella.

You pay a visit to the Daly Cith Dept. of Building and Safety and ask for copies of the record and you'll be lucky if they provide them free.

If a person actually goes to the court hearing they can contest the lien. Whether or not they succeed, is again up to their evidence and the judge.

And the filing party can defend or wave it.

While I am not a lawyer or a contractor, I would like to know why you think it is "bologna" that the contractor would not have to use the material that the OP agreed upon using and was charged for?

Show me the contract, where it specifically varies from "in accordance with standard building practices".

I know that as a homeowner, if I paid for specific materials to be used and the contractor screwed up, I would expect them to use the same materials I had already paid for to replace it. If the job had been done right in the first place, the homeowner would still have the material they wanted and paid for.

Up to the moment the final cheque has been cashed, you haven't paid for anything, all you have is an agreement to preform.

 

[Snoonyb]

Snoopyb, I don't think I've met anyone before who can so quickly condemn someone for not being as perfect as you must be.

I took it upon myself to visit the building department and the planning department. I purchased the code manuals, and still use them for reference. when I was at the building dept. I availed myself of the free hand outs for residential construction.

I studied the lien law.

I am "cursorily" familiar with the business and professional code.

I was interested enough in my self-preservation, without depending upon others.

I advise others on a methodology to achieve their goal, satisfactory completion of their project.

Few feel so lonely and insulted by their naivety being revealed that they demand their 2 seconds of social media fame.

You are apparently unaware aware, that the government you elect to do everything for you, you simultaneously elect, to take everything from you.

 

[zannej]

Oops, misread your name as Snoopy. LOL. Sorry.

I applaud your efforts in taking initiative, but a lot of homeowners really don't even know where to begin and just trust contractors. Maybe that is naive, but not everyone has the time, inclination, or aptitude to do what you did.

Yes, homeowners should be careful about who they hire and such, but at the same time, the contractors are the ones who are being hired and who have the responsibility to do the right things when doing work.

Some people make mistakes and get taken advantage of, and I don't think it is right to ridicule them so harshly when they realize they were ripped off or had bad work done and they want to let others know. They are basically serving as a warning to others that they should be more careful. Without people sharing their experiences, people wouldn't know about these things happening.

 

[Snoonyb]

Thanks, I've never been afraid of ruffling a few feathers, or standing on someones desk.

People should realize that "I'm from the government and Im here to help" is a dangerous phrase, and they should define there own equity.

The resources are all there, just don't get sucked in.

 

[slownsteady]

So Snoonby, since you have all this knowledge, would you like to help Merk figure out his next steps, or are you going to label him "sucker" and walk away?

 

[Snoonyb]

Do you have a back-quote for the "sucker" comment, or are you protracting.

Having read the thread through, the question, his statement that it's been resolved, his statement that he has already filed a complaint with The Department of Consumer Affairs, State Contractors License Board, published on social media and contacted CBS news for his 2sec. of fame, all without availing himself of the resources available to him.

He seems unwilling to share the unedited version of events, so he's pretty much set his own coarse.

Where was the OP when he was contemplating the project, when advice may actually had some effect?

 

[slownsteady]

OP isn't blameless. There were many points where he could have stopped the madness. But we're here to help (most of us anyway) so help if you can, or drop the thread if you can't (or won't).
And yes, I was not so much protracting, as surmising from your attitude.

 

[Snoonyb]

So, how many erroneous assumptions are you, as a moderator, allowed in each post?

By the way, post #2 is the answer to the question that this thread is the subject of and no other requests for assistance have been requested.

Ask and answered.

Because thats 3.

Why don't you, as a moderator, take the time to search the internet and list all the occasions that I have actually referred to someone as a "sucker", instead of perceiving yourself as a mind reader with intuitive powers, beyond the realm of reality.

 

[zannej]

Just out of curiosity, what resources should the OP have availed himself of? What do you think the proper recourse was in this situation?

I realize that you probably might not picture yourself in that situation since you would have handled things differently from the get-go, but just for the sake of a fun exercise, let's do a hypothetical situation. Pretend you were in his place and had gotten screwed over by the contractor the way he feels he was. What would you have done instead?

You may think that the person is out for fame. I don't know if that is the case or if he just wants some help from outside sources and to raise awareness to help other people avoid the same mistakes. The media can be a useful tool in getting things done when other methods fail. I don't know if I would have gone to the media in this situation, but I'm not the one in the situation.

Yes, the OP probably should have sought advice beforehand-- but hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure he's learned his lesson in that area. And I do know that sometimes there are people who do seek advice and either get bad advice or don't get answers before starting a project.

I'm still not quite sure what the government has to do with all of this though. I admit that I don't get why you keep mentioning it. Maybe I just missed something.

And in case my tone is not clear in text, I'm not angry or upset. I'm just curious and a bit confused.

 

[KULTULZ]

He'll probably respond but it's more than likely that the OP "elected" to negotiate on social media, without first educating himself on common building, OR, common business practices.

He most likely ran into a brick wall (did you actually read the page he set up - review the shoddy work?) as there is no true resort to a situation as this other than civil court which is costly and the most that will be likely awarded is a judgement which will never be paid.

It is better (IMO) to fire the contractor and start with another.

It is neither incompetent nor dishonest to use material you have on hand, and is actually prudent business practice to reduce stored material inventory.Either regular drywall or WR board will satisfy the fire rating of the wall.

It is if the contract called for a certain type of drywall as there was concern on somebody's' part about possible water damage depending on the back-splash design/materials selected.

He hung a water resistant and then patched over his mistake with regular drywall. Where does fire code come into this?

Everyone has the "ability", however they elect to subordinate to a "professional" as a matter of convenience, or they simply do not want to take the time to educate themselves.

When you go in for your cancer treatment, be sure to get your medical degree so you can tell the surgeon how to proceed in your particular case.

When you go to a restaurant, be sure you go into the kitchen and advise/oversee the preparation of your meal.

I think you need to read the webpage before going any further or it is most likely you condone this business practice.

 

[Snoonyb]

Just out of curiosity, what resources should the OP have availed himself of? What do you think the proper recourse was in this situation?

Pretend you were in his place and had gotten screwed over by the contractor the way he feels he was. What would you have done instead?

I would have quietly hired a construction attny.

I would not have elected social media as my default source for venting, until the gavel has sounded.

You may think that the person is out for fame. I don't know if that is the case or if he just wants some help from outside sources and to raise awareness to help other people avoid the same mistakes. The media can be a useful tool in getting things done when other methods fail. I don't know if I would have gone to the media in this situation, but I'm not the one in the situation.

The right can be negotiated and can have a monetary value above a salutary one.

Yes, the OP probably should have sought advice beforehand-- but hindsight is 20/20. I'm sure he's learned his lesson in that area. And I do know that sometimes there are people who do seek advice and either get bad advice or don't get answers before starting a project.

Anyone who has bought anything or listened to any media source in CA should be aware of the 72hr. rescission period.

I'm still not quite sure what the government has to do with all of this though. I admit that I don't get why you keep mentioning it. Maybe I just missed something.

The Calif. State Contractors License Board will arbitrate on the injured parties behalf, however, it has been my experience that any monetary fees levied, are on their behalf, not the injured parties, and they have subpoena powers.

That's what attny's are for.

There is an order to the process.

Also in his diatribe there is no mention of the rescission period , if they were asked and agreed to waive it, the structure of the payment schedule or a start and completion date.

 

[Snoonyb]

He most likely ran into a brick wall (did you actually read the page he set up - review the shoddy work?) as there is no true resort to a situation as this other than civil court which is costly and the most that will be likely awarded is a judgement which will never be paid.

Is you opinion based upon a here-to-for undisclosed knowledge of how the business is held or not understanding CA. Contractors License law.

It is better (IMO) to fire the contractor and start with another.

The process can also require attny's and months of delays.

It is if the contract called for a certain type of drywall as there was concern on somebody's' part about possible water damage depending on the back-splash design/materials selected.

The OP has not furnished any evidensce that that was the case or that there were any specifications list that denoted anything other than what appears in a standard form contract, "standard building materials".

He hung a water resistant and then patched over his mistake with regular drywall. Where does fire code come into this?

You may not understand that every wall has, based upon their composition, a fire rating.

I think you need to read the webpage before going any further or it is most likely you condone this business practice.

So, because I read where at first there wasn't a plan, and then there was, I was reading from something else?

There is a curious phenomenon that occurs when callout an OP continuing down an erroneous path.

You are ASSumed to be advocating for the "edited" illegitimate acts of another.

When in fact, that "edited" version is far from the true story.

 

[zannej]

Ah. Thank you for answering. I haven't been to California for a very long time and I'm not up-to-date on the laws. To be honest, it hadn't occurred to me that there even was such a thing as a construction attorney. It makes sense now that I hear about it, though.

It's possible that the OP wasn't aware of that either. And it's possible that he was also unaware of the 72hr rescission period.

To make sure I understand what you're saying, contacting the licensing board and getting the government involved gets money for the government in forms of fees/fines but usually is not beneficial to the complainant, right? An attorney would be necessary to seek restitution for alleged damages as there would not be such satisfaction from the government?

I'm not judging the OP, but I admit I was baffled that any work was started without a clear plan going forward. Maybe it's just me, but I would think some sort of plan would be required before demo began so they would know what did and did not need demo. I personally would want a very clear plan of what needed to be done (with allowances for hidden surprises behind the walls that might require modification). But then, I have a fascination with construction and would want to know about everything that was going on.

I know there are people who feel like they wouldn't ever be able to understand the intricacies of construction so they leave it up to the contractors. Usually it's people who have never been screwed over or who are trusting who don't ask questions or who go forward.

Anyway, I hope the OP gives an update on how this worked out (or if it doesn't work out).

 

[Snoonyb]

To be honest, it hadn't occurred to me that there even was such a thing as a construction attorney. It makes sense now that I hear about it, though.

It's a tongue-cheek specialty and is actually a general practice attny with an in-depth knowledge of the Business and Professional Code, which every state has.

It's possible that the OP wasn't aware of that either. And it's possible that he was also unaware of the 72hr rescission period.

It's one of the responsibilities of the contractor to have that notice available at the time the contract is presented for signature, which the customer must sign as acceptance of it having been present and explained and/or the decision to waive.

To make sure I understand what you're saying, contacting the licensing board and getting the government involved gets money for the government in forms of fees/fines but usually is not beneficial to the complainant, right?

Yes, it's been my experience, however, they also denote and list the violations which have been found and need to be corrected. The contractor can be present or not. They are notified of the finding and the action that will be taken.

An attorney would be necessary to seek restitution for alleged damages as there would not be such satisfaction from the government?

There comes a point where the choice of compensation can factor into the decision to file with the state or take the money, however, if the violation are sufficiently egregious to warrant the suspension of the license and the factoring of their construction bond.

I'm not judging the OP, but I admit I was baffled that any work was started without a clear plan going forward. Maybe it's just me, but I would think some sort of plan would be required before demo began so they would know what did and did not need demo. I personally would want a very clear plan of what needed to be done (with allowances for hidden surprises behind the walls that might require modification). But then, I have a fascination with construction and would want to know about everything that was going on.

There are so many wrongs in this entire escapade, it's astounding.

I know there are people who feel like they wouldn't ever be able to understand the intricacies of construction so they leave it up to the contractors. Usually it's people who have never been screwed over or who are trusting who don't ask questions or who go forward.

When I'm referred to a prospective customer I have numerous questions of them, before I even agree to work for them.

Anyway, I hope the OP gives an update on how this worked out (or if it doesn't work out).

Someday.

 

[nealtw]

Hi All,

In a dispute with my crappy contractor who is now resorting to threatening me with cease and desist letters if i dont remove my reviews of them.

One of the things his lawyer mentioned was that there is no industry standard that would require them to use water resistant sheetrock around the sink in the kitchen.

Ironically, they DID use water resistant sheetrock the first time they put up sheetrock. But they had to tear it all down since they did all that work without any permits or inspections. I also don't think they put any insulation in the walls which i think they were also required to do.

Oh, and this is in california, daly city.

I just went back and read some of your earlier threads and it is too bad that we didn't get that, this was an ongoing mess all under one contract.
At this point all we can do is cheer lead for you and let you vent.
I think the best advice we could have given was stop the work and deal with whatever happens after that. And it sounds like you are there already so good luck and keep us posted.:hide:

 

[merk]

Do you have a back-quote for the "sucker" comment, or are you protracting.

Having read the thread through, the question, his statement that it's been resolved, his statement that he has already filed a complaint with The Department of Consumer Affairs, State Contractors License Board, published on social media and contacted CBS news for his 2sec. of fame, all without availing himself of the resources available to him.

He seems unwilling to share the unedited version of events, so he's pretty much set his own coarse.

Where was the OP when he was contemplating the project, when advice may actually had some effect?

there's a difference between ruffling feathers and just being rude - and you are rude.

I'm not looking for 2 seconds of fame. I'd be much happier not having my name or face appear anywhere. I just dont want these guys to keep scamming other people.

As for sharing an unedited version of events - how is my version edited? How would you know if it's edited if you didn't know what the full version of events are? Did you read what I posted on that site? Tell me what about it makes you think it's edited it some way?

And a mod should feel free to lock this thread at this point since it's basically devolving into personal attacks at this point i think. I appreciate the advice given from others.

 

[Snoonyb]

there's a difference between ruffling feathers and just being rude - and you are rude.

The way I've addressed this, is the same way I speak in person and had you taken the time to read through my posts, you would know the course of action to achieve the greatest recovery.

I'm not looking for 2 seconds of fame. I'd be much happier not having my name or face appear anywhere. I just dont want these guys to keep scamming other people.

I've outlined the method.

As for sharing an unedited version of events - how is my version edited?

Where's the contract documents?

How would you know if it's edited if you didn't know what the full version of events are?

Asked and answered.

Did you read what I posted on that site?

Yes.

Tell me what about it makes you think it's edited it some way?

Where's the contract documents, plans and specifications.

And a mod should feel free to lock this thread at this point since it's basically devolving into personal attacks at this point i think. I appreciate the advice given from others.

If you were actually looking to evolve your experience into an instructional experience for others, that could have been stated in post #1, but it, sadly, wasn't.

 

[merk]

The contract isn't going to add anything of substance to this, unless of course you think i am lying. The only thing in the contract that really comes into play is the payment schedule and completion date.

The contract itself is very poorly written - something the CSLB has cited them on. So even if i do post it, a lot of it would be hard to read.

And the plans and spec - again, no relevance to anything i said, other than the island being 4 inches shorter than what it was supposed to be.

Although I don't think it can hurt to make those documents publically available so I'll upload them to the site later today.

I honestly don't know if you think are you are being helpful or if you are trolling people. So you might want to reconsider how you approach people - even if your words are informative, if you are insulting people and turning them away, then your words are mostly wasted.

And I'm going to unsubscribe from getting notifications on this thread since I don't really think anything productive will come from continuing to discuss this with you (snoonyb) and it's largely off topic at this point.