At a loss as to best course of action to take to replace Water Heater

[tomtheelder2020]

I really wanted to go tankless, and did a lot of research, but the lowest bid I could get (Sacramento area) for an easy install (no upgrade of gas or vent) was $2k labor. For one person the job could likely be done in a couple of hours. Including picking up the unit and disposing of the old tank still should take much less than a day.

If you get tankless, be sure it is plumbed for flushing scale from the heat exchanger. With hard water in my area that would need to be done quarterly.

My house has 2 water heaters (lucky me) so I have done 3 tank replacements in the last 30 years. Two I DIYed with no problem - but I have done a lot of DIY projects (house is 70 years old) including a fair amount of plumbing. A 3rd tank needed replacement 2 years ago at the same time my back was out. Labor from HD was $250.

If you can't get a reasonable labor rate from HD or Lowes, check for a local Handyman. If you decide to DIY, plan on it taking longer than expected.

The only other think I can think of that on one has mentioned - from the photo it looks like the current tank does not have a drain pan. Get one.

Good luck and let us know what happens.

 

[Annapolis Albert]

We replaced our gas hot water heater with a tankless heater 15 years ago. We were living in Central Alberta. I did the install myself. In my case it was not that difficult but I did have to increase the size of the gas line. Tankless water heaters need the water to be very soft so we then installed a water softener. I think that the cost to replace your water heater with a new tank style heater is a little on the high side. A tankless heater has no standby losses but you need to open the faucet more that a tank unit. This is because the tankless unit needs to sense the demand. Its nice to never run out of water but I don't think you would ever recover the cost difference. If your looking to reduce your carbon footprint then you may want to look at a heat pump water heater.

 

[Guzzle]

With showers, mostly got cold water sandwiches with the tankless units in Germany,. You needed a tub to even out the temperatures.

 

[Annapolis Albert]

I had the cold water sandwich problem until I descaled the heater and installed a water softener. The unit I had was a Rinnai.

 

[BvilleBound]

Dear Neal: I installed a Rheem tankless water heater in our house, and in a very tight space. Here are my recommendations and note:

(1) Natural gas provides significantly more energy than electricity, which translates to capacity. You will see this on the capacity rating for each unit.

(2) Buy a high effeiciency (condensing) gas-fired unit. The efficiency will save you money, plus the exhaust is run through PVC pipe -- which is much easier than trying to run a hot exhaust pipe up through your roof. (The exhaust cannot be run through a chimney that is used for anything else, e.g. wood fires.) You will need to run two pipes -- one for exhaust and one for combustion air intake. Find the installation guide online for the one you are thinking of buying; this will explain all of the details. In snow country, for example, both pipes must be well above the potential snow line. Because there are so many options compared to a chimeny, there are also rules about locating the exhaust pipe under an openable window, in an interior corner of the building, etc. The diagram in the installation guide will explain all of this basic stuff.

(3) If your wall is concrete or concrete block, start by mounting a 2' x 4' piece of 3/4" thick plywood on the wall, and attach the tankless to that. We usually attach a couple of pieces of PT 2x4 to the wall first with Tapcon screws (You drill a hole in the concrete then screw the Tapcon directly in; no insert is required. Home Depot and Lowes carry them.) Then screw the 2' x 4' plywood to the 2x4s.

(4) When you install the two PVC pipes, you will need to connect a number of adapters, e.g. 45 and 90 degrees. Use standard PVC purple primer followed immediately by standard PVC glue. Apply primer then glue to both the pipe and connector. Make sure there are no burrs on the edge of the pipe, because when you press the two together the glue sets up very fast. If the pipe gets stuck on a burr and only goes in half way, you won't be able to pull it out and start over. For these large pipes, we go over the edge lightly with a file.

Dry-fit your pieces together before you glue them up, to get the angles right. Mark the alignment with a line on the pipe and adapter with a permanent felt pen, so you can easily line them up when you glue things together.

(5) Condensing gas units also generate a little water. You will need to run a 1/2" PVC or PEX line to a waste pipe. Note: condensate water is acidic -- about the level of lemon juice. If you waste lines are iron, you should run the condensate through a 'nutralizer'. before it empies into the waste line This is simply a small plastic bucket /container full of marble chips. (Which are available from Home Depot and probably Lowes.) You can easily put this together yourself. Drain lines like these should decline 1/4" per foot.

(6) The installation guide will also give you the recommended gas pipe diameter (not circumference). You may already have the right diameter pipe -- or not. It is good that you already have a large gas supply pipe accessible in your attic.

I finished the installation of the tankless unit in my beach house in about 6 hours. More time was needed due to complex exhaust / combustion air pipe runs in a very tight space. I hope this info is helpful.

Mark

 

[bud16415]

You have been getting a lot of great advice here and a lot of options if you want to do something different than what you have.



The tank you have now is likely coated and partly filled with scale and sediment and likely running very inefficient. So you may not be able to compare how a new tank will work even if the same size let alone if you step up a size. Then there is what temp is it set at and if it is a little low then when you take a shower you are mixing more hot with cold than you would be at a warmer setting. People with small kids sometimes use lower settings for safety. I’m not suggesting you crank the new one to the max but likely there is room for turning the new one warmer.



Your old tank is right now giving you the warning signs with the slight leak. In my experience they don’t do that for that long and then you are in panic mode when you walk into a dumped tank on the floor.



It is hard to tell from your photos but is there a gas shut off valve where the gas line stubs out of the wall? Also I can see one old gate valve on the water inlet line to the tank. Is there one on the outlet side also? These old gate valves often get built up with the same stuff that is in the tank and often never get used so they stick and bind up or start leaking when the packing is disturbed. Know where the main valve is just in case and if you DIY a new tank or whatever replace that old valve with a ball valve is what I would do.



It seems you have figured out why us old timers are DIYers. It is not because we like barking our knuckles it is because we hate to give someone a week of our pay for a few hours of their time. With DIY you need to know when to pick your battles though. And a new tankless system might be more than you are ready for at this time with adding a water softener maybe etc. a direct swap of a similar tank might be something you want to start with. Factor in zero cost except the cost of parts and maybe a few tools you don’t own yet and a few grand in labor along with more expensive equipment and if you only live there 10-15-20 years or whatever the life of the tank may be you may not see a lot of savings.



Here is the fatherly advice again. There is a fear of the unknown when it comes to DIY. I worked for many years around tool and die makers that could build anything with their hands and tools and would work day in and day out to .0001” tolerances. They would tell me their car was in the shop getting brakes put on and how much the job cost. I would ask them why don’t you do your own brakes I do mine? They would say well I wouldn’t even know where to start. I would point out they just built some piece of equipment from raw stock that had 5000 parts to it and didn’t even ask a question.



Despite there being a 100 shows on TV where they fix homes and a million YouTubes on everything you can think of I seem to find every year more and more young people are fearful of launching into a DIY project.

Don’t wait for it to blow.

 

[Guzzle]

"(1) Natural gas provides significantly more energy than electricity, which translates to capacity."

Sort of.
A Therm of heat energy equals 29.3 kWh of elec. energy with less kWh per Therm if you use a heat pump.

In Oct. we used 64 Therms of NG heat @ $1.64/Th & 576 kWh of elec. @ $0.17/kWh. The Heat Value of NG is converted to usable energy.

Total energy into the house was 2451 kWh or 84 Th.
The water company supplies us with moving water but we'd need a waterwheel to use this form of energy.
With a well we'd need some more elec. energy to get water.

See Heat Value per lb, CCF, gallon, etc.
There is no Heat Value for elec. energy, or sunlight.

The Heat Value of Uranium is 550x that of NG but supply is short & demand in some quarters is pretty high.

 

[user 4883]

Hi kok328. I think a permit is required to install or replace a water heater. I just googled it. I don't know what a expansion tank is.

I just spoke to the installer through Lowes, and they quoted me about $2500 just for the installation of a tankless gas water heater. The thing that I don't love is he didn't ask me much about my system, and he said the only tankless water heaters his team is trained on are Rinnai waterheaters that have no rebates. His quote to install a tank water heater was around $1000, so I can see why people choose to try to do it themselves.

Just looked at HD and they have heaters for a little over $500 and some a little over $1000. You obviously not getting the $1000 unit from the contractor but, what exactly are the specs on his proposed unit?
I needed a permit for mine but, didn't pull one. It's been about 7yrs. now so I must have done something right.

 

[Fireguy5674]

Annapolis Albert mentioned a heat pump water heater above. With the current concern about reducing the use of gas fired appliances because of the creation of greenhouse gases, that might be something to look at. They have a 50 gal. hybrid water heater (heat pump but has heater elements too) Rheem at HD which they claim will run all year on $104. Supposed to service up to 3 bathrooms and 3 to 5 people with a first hour recovery of 67 gals. WiFi settable from your phone. It is more expensive up front but supposed to save that in 2-3 years.
I realize you are concerned about DIY but the only major difference would be running power to unit, capping gas and won't need to use existing flue. Everything else would be same as changing any other heater. It is an Energy Star product and could qualify for rebates.
I realize everyone's skill level is different, but I can change out a water heater in a couple of hours no problem. Changing the valve on the cold-water line could add a little time but not much.
I am strongly considering this unit as I am about due to replace my water heater but have not talked to anyone who is using one now.

 

[Annapolis Albert]

NealC, You are in Illinois so the air that the heat pump water heater is getting heat from might be heat you are already paying for. In California there is lots of heat in the air that is free. I had thought about a heat pump water heater for our home in Annapolis Royal but I don't think it makes sense and haven't reaseached this since I don't need one yet