Bad Well Pump or Something Else?

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That I can't say. I've only worked on shallow well pumps that were mounted on the holding tank. Could be bad, could be blocked. Lot's of work on your end. It might be worth while to have someone experienced with your system check it out before you pull the pump up. In any case, make sure to turn the power off when you work on it.
 
hi 1vic,

above you wrote ...
"With the breakers on, at the control box I get about 77-78 v from the red and black wires (pump), and 1__ v from the white and black wires (house). "

I just joined this forum and you're my first victim .. :)

Sounds to me like voltage is getting from the breaker to the pressure control switch ok ... but it's not getting past the switch to the pump.

To test the pump motor electrically, from where the pressure control is, you could ..
turn off the breaker
remove from the pressure switch, the black and red wires that go to the pump
make sure the battery in your multimeter is good
set your multimeter on "ohms" or "continuity" at one of its lower ranges
touch the meter's probes to the red and black wires going to the pump

the meter should show a certain amount of "resistance" .. probably 50 ohms to 300 ohms. I'm guessing about those figures, though. If the motor and the wiring leading to it are ok, there will be some kind of reading.

if the meter shows nothing (infinity, hundreds of thousands of ohms, or resistance is off the scale) .. electricity is not moving through the wires and the pump motor .. telling us that a wire is broken or burned, an electrical connection to the pump (hopefully above ground) has failed, the the pump motor has failed, or the thermal protector device on the pump motor has failed.

If the pump passes these tests, I'd look next at the pressure control switch.

thx,
Ed
 
Do the wires from the switch go directly down the well or do they go to a control box first? Many 240 volt well pumps have a control box with a capacitor and relay for starting the pump.
You should have 240 volts on white black coming from the breaker and 240 volts on the red black leaving to the pump.
 
Hi Joe, The wires go to a switch box in my basement, then from there they go to the well. I do have 240 volts going to and from the switch. so it looks like I'm going to be removing the pump to check it out.

Thanks,

Vince
 
Take the cap off the well and turn on the breaker. Listen down the well for noise. The pipe could broken or cracked and spraying all the water back in the well.
 
Vince

Do you know how deep your well is? You will be lifting the pump and the torque arrestor and all the wire and pipe full of water. The depth will determine If you can DIY or if you will need a couple helpers or even a machine to help pull.
 
If you can access the wires in the well at the cap, check them for 230 volts. I have seen many times the wire underground getting damaged and killing the pump. Also make sure that all you have is a Red, Black and possibly a Green wire. If you have a yellow wire, there may be a control box somewhere that you haven't found. What your calling a control box is in fact the pressure switch. You asked if the points should be open or closed. When the pump is below the shut off pressure the points are closed. When it reaches it's shutoff pressure, they will re open.

Pulling a pump that is hung below 200' is going to be a job to say the least. A lot will depend on whether it's hung on galvanized pipe (usually 1-1/4" or 1") or PVC or poly pipe. That's a lot of weight the pipe plus the water that is in them.
 
Lots of great responses, thank you so much!

I'm just getting back online for the night and now I'll be running out in the morning to test the wires for voltage at the cap. There was 240v at the black and red wires at the switch when the breaker was closed.

From what I can see written on the pressure tank, the most recent listing is for a 1 HP pump in 2005, and the depth is 228'. I agree that it's a big effort to take it out, and even though I have an engine hoist I could use to lift it, it's still a lot of work and I'd hate to run into any unexpected issues. I will be calling people tomorrow and see who I can get that will pull it and let me get a new pump (if needed, probably) and probably put it back together myself.

A look under the cap, I didn't see any rope, just a red and black wire going into a blue sheath that went down as far as I could see and a short length of green wire not connected to anything. I hung a light down as far as the hose that leads to the house, and did not see any water or anything else that looked wrong. Even though the breaker was on and the the pressure switch closed, I didn't hear any humming or noise.

The pipe is probably poly, as the only galvanized pipe I've found was in the basement, very old and leaking, and is no longer here.

Ed, with the tester on the 2000 Ohms scale, and the red and black wires disconnected from the pressure control switch, I got steady readings of 007 and 008 with the red probe on the red wire, and the black probe on the black wire.

Whew! Thanks again for all the great commentary!

Vince
 
Check either wire to ground or to the casing if it's metal. Hopefully you will read more than 50,000 ohms. If less than that, the pump will have to come out as it's grounded. The reading between them is about right with all the wire you have going down the well. This also tells you that the winding's are not open. This is a good thing.
 
Okay, I just checked, and with the breaker on and the switch closed, I am getting 240v at the wires at the pump. So, for whatever reason, the pump is not working with 240v coming to it.
 
That could be the overload causing it not to do anything. Then when it closes, the overload of the motor trips it out again immediately. They are automatic reset. If that is the case, I don't know for sure how you would have gotten the 007 ohm reading between the two wires. Hmmmm.
 
Hmm, could the motor be seized or clogged? The 007 reading I got between the two wires was definite, I tested them three times. The pump seems to have stopped with little or no warning, I don't know what is typical for these types of electric pumps. There is a decal on the pressure tank for a 1 hp Franklin pump, that may be it.
 
The decal could be it or from a previous install. Yes they do seize up. Generally the motor not the pump. If that's the case, it will try to start, then the overload will kick it out for a minute or more depending on how hot it gets. Then it tries again. You probably wouldn't hear or feel anything with a pump hung that deep. Keep in mind that 7 years is average life for a sub. If you could hear the overload tripping or if you had an amp meter and monitored when it tripped, you could disconnect the pump wires real fast and see if you still get the James Bond reading. If not, that tells you the overload has tripped.
 
Sounds like you are going to be pulling it no matter what.
A clamp on ammeter would tell you if the pump is trying to run, or is running and not pumping.
It could be that the sediment level has risen in the well and the pump is now buried. I don't remember but have you checked the water level in the well? Could the well be dry?
 
Speedbump...The decal is curiously placed right above the notation and date of a 1 HP pump installed The other dates that indicate a pump install are written on other parts of the tank. We'll find out sooner or later....

Joe....You brought up a question I wondered about, is it the pump or the well? Just how to tell? I have seen no water, but I do not know how to check the water level. I have not had any problems with the pump running too much, even though it has not rained here in a week (I've had no problems in past much drier times). The pump worked fine the night before, even filling the toilet tanks after late night flushes, then was totally dead in the morning and hasn't changed in four days now.

I have a local well guy coming over to look at it tomorrow or Wednesday, as his schedule allows.

Thanks, again for the very useful info!

Vince
 
Drop a line down the well with something that floats on the end of it. That will give you the water level. Drop a line down the well with a weight that sinks. That will give you the bottom of the well.
 
Good luck, hopefully he can find something simple and save you having to pull the pump.
 
Update, I had two guys from a local company come out and test the pump to see if was working, and they confirmed that the overload was tripping. I had them pull the pump. With their truck with boom, they made it look easy (and to their credit, they were very organized). The pump was below 225' and the depth of the well, according to the labeling on the pressure tank, is 235'. There was quite a bit of rusty sludge in the lower sections of the well.

The pump was definitely not working, and it appears it may have been overheating. The last threaded section of the piping that screwed into the pump was deformed (picture attached).

The old pump was a Berkeley, Model S10SP4E02J-04 1HP, 10 GPM 2 wire 60 HZ 1 Phase.

Now the question will be to get a replacement (Speedbump...), and see how well it pumps. There is the question as to whether the well is deep enough, as they've had to drill a few others deeper locally.

Pictures attached....

IMG_6593a.jpg

IMG_6592.jpg
 
Wow, I can't believe that pump came out with the pipe looking like that. It wouldn't have taken much more heat to make it just drop off into the obis.
If the well isn't deep enough and these guys are willing to go back into the hole, that's great because most guys wont' do that. They should be able to tell why it got hot the way it did.

By the way, that pump looks very nice compared to most, at least you can still read the old label.:)
 
They thought the pipe looked like that because the pump was overheating possibly due to not enough water. What makes me wonder about that is that the pump just failed with no warning of low pressure, etc. And it was early in the morning that I noticed the total lack of pressure. I only used the bathroom and toilets couple of times in the evening, so not a lot of water being used in the last hours of it's life..
 
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