Best Whole House Heat Pump???
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Eddie_T
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Another option is a high velocity system. This Old House may still have episodes available regarding them. The duct work is only 2" D and slightly flexible so much easier to install whether by contract or DIY. Also significantly less probability of structural impact.
jjredmond71
Active Member
You cannot do them yourself without buying Wrightsoft software
They come in anything from 5-20" but I would be wary of a high velocity system in terms of the system being properly balanced; but that is above my pay grade. I say this because you want an equal number of CFM coming out of the supply as is being sent to the return. Without that occurring, you will have an inconsistency in air flow, inefficiency in the system as a whole, and certain portions of the home that will be either pressurized or de-pressurized. This will all result in a much higher heating and cooling bill.
Eddie_T
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What is Cool Calc?
Cool Calc is a low-cost alternative to a performing a full Manual J. Cool Calc’s calculations are based on the ACCA Manual J 8th Edition and are approved by ACCA. Which means if you need to install a mini-split system, for example, this program will give you highly accurate information, at a fraction of the price.
Eddie_T
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STANDARD PRICE: 3-5 BUSINESS DAYS FOR INTIAL TURN-AROUND
| Size of Residence | Manual J&S Calculation | Manual D Calculation | Manual J, D and S Calculation |
Standard Pricing | Standard Pricing | Standard Pricing | |
< 2000 sq.ft | $250 | $100 | $325 |
2000-3500 sq. ft. | $350 | $150 | $500 |
3500-5000 sq.ft. | $450 | $225 | $675 |
5000-6500 sq. ft. | $550 | $300 | $850 |
6500-8000 sq. ft. | $650 | $375 | $1025 |
8000-10,000 sq. ft. | $850 | $600 | $1450 |
> 10,000 sq. ft. | Call For Quote (817) 922-0544 | Call For Quote (817) 922-0544 | Call For Quote (817) 922-0544 |
https://www.acsupplytexas.com/take-pricing/
jjredmond71
Active Member
If you are in The Lone Star State, it is going to be interesting to see how you plan on purchasing refrigerant considering you do not hold Section 608/9 certifications. To purchase it without these certifications is a federal crime.Great info, thanks!
I'll put this in my HVAC folder and learn from it.... when I'm shopping these guys will think I know some stuff!
I'm basically just trying to learn enough to know what questions to ask!
https://www.epa.gov/section608/refr...sed as refrigerants, with limited exceptions.
You claim that your state is "business-friendly"; mine is as well, but it has laws that need to be followed. If you, in fact, do live in Texas, I would highly recommend you read Texas law on HVAC Contracting as it does indeed require an HVAC license, whether it be a Class A or Class B.
https://www.hvaccertification.org/hvac-license-texas/
You are getting way over your skis on this project, all so you can save buck. It is apparent by your questions and response to the information provided to you that you are far from prepared to take on this project, hence the reason why there is a requirement of 48 months working for an HVAC company before you even apply for a license. You do not know the basics that are required in order to install a safe system that can be used long term. HVAC is not a trade to mess around with, either in the install process or long-term health-wise.
If you are not in Texas, my post still stands, minus Texas law. What you save up front is a lot less than the long-term costs you will endure by not having a legit, properly installed system in this building.
That sounds logical
Seeing the government ignores quite a few of their own laws, shouldn't be a problem!
I'm going with a whole house heat pump system and if it's anything like the smaller units, they come with refrigerant already in the system. You just connect the lines and fire it up.
Otherwise, that's what the HVAC guy will be providing as he does this side gig for me.
That would be the HVAC guy's department, not mine.
That's what I'll be paying the HVAC guy to be taking care of.
BvilleBound
Well-Known Member
Doing a Manual J and S are essential to accurately size an HVAC system! As someone noted above, many HVAC contractors, however, use their "rule of thumb" AKA "I've been doing this for X years and I know your system should be Y tons!" This typically leads to oversized units that are more expensive to purchase and run. Thumbs are great, but not for sizing HVAC systems! See these reviews from Martin Holladay and Allison Bailes, building science experts:
I ran Manual J for both of our homes, installed the ducts (we had existing forced air) purchased the systems then hired a contractor to install and charge the systems. The contractor was surprised by the small size of the air conditioning condenser, so I explained the high level of insulation in the home and the Manual J analysis.
Important note: The accuracy of any Manual J / S analysis depends on the accuracy of the data you enter. You need to measure each window, enter the type of window, the insulation installed in walls and your attic, etc. You can do a better job than the typical contractor who uses Manual J, if you pay attention to the details.
RE the type of heat pump, Mitsubishi makes excellent systems. Plus they offer standard 'head' units that mount on walls -- or hidden 'casettes' that you can install in the ceiling that look like standard registers, plus units you can install above an existing air mover, using existing ducts.
Insulate heat pump lines! Contractors typically install cheap and thin foam sleeves on the lines that run from the heat pump into your home - which provide only R3 insulation. This means that the cold/hot fluid you pay for is heating / cooling the air outside your home. It is easy to install additional insulation, using larger fiberglass or foam sleeves over the thin ones; Home Depot and Lowes carry them. Be sure to seal the seams with foil HVAC tape; the 'self adhesive' strips often fail over time. Then install a plastic cover over the insulation, to protect it from the sun and weather. Enter "covers for mini split lines" on Amazon or in Google.
I hope this info is helpful.
- Calculating Cooling Loads - GreenBuildingAdvisor
- A 3-Ton Air Conditioner Will Rarely Give You 3 Tons of Cooling - GreenBuildingAdvisor
I ran Manual J for both of our homes, installed the ducts (we had existing forced air) purchased the systems then hired a contractor to install and charge the systems. The contractor was surprised by the small size of the air conditioning condenser, so I explained the high level of insulation in the home and the Manual J analysis.
Important note: The accuracy of any Manual J / S analysis depends on the accuracy of the data you enter. You need to measure each window, enter the type of window, the insulation installed in walls and your attic, etc. You can do a better job than the typical contractor who uses Manual J, if you pay attention to the details.
RE the type of heat pump, Mitsubishi makes excellent systems. Plus they offer standard 'head' units that mount on walls -- or hidden 'casettes' that you can install in the ceiling that look like standard registers, plus units you can install above an existing air mover, using existing ducts.
Insulate heat pump lines! Contractors typically install cheap and thin foam sleeves on the lines that run from the heat pump into your home - which provide only R3 insulation. This means that the cold/hot fluid you pay for is heating / cooling the air outside your home. It is easy to install additional insulation, using larger fiberglass or foam sleeves over the thin ones; Home Depot and Lowes carry them. Be sure to seal the seams with foil HVAC tape; the 'self adhesive' strips often fail over time. Then install a plastic cover over the insulation, to protect it from the sun and weather. Enter "covers for mini split lines" on Amazon or in Google.
I hope this info is helpful.
jjredmond71
Active Member
The HVAC tech, we have already established, you planned to hire is not licensed to install a "side gig" system. You are not breaking any law; he or she is (although you are an accomplice), and that can lead to a lot of adverse long-term effects to your home and heating and cooling bill. I can only lead you to water; I can not make you drink it. It is obvious you as a corner-cutting DIYer who knows more than me, someone who has been in the business for over 27 years, aren't going to listen to a thing anyone has told you here.
But, you go do you...and enjoy the results. Good luck!
If you were going to do want you want anyway, why even waste the time of those who have more expertise than you and ask us to help you? Don't come crying to us when your system is spitting out air in inconsistent intervals and your energy bill is $4-500.
I'm not saying you are wrong or that I know more than you... I'm simply saying the mark up is pure greed! Some of these guys are marking up the hardware 4 and 5 times what I can buy it for. That's greed and it's sinful to screw people this badly!
So, I'm going to explore ways to things differently. If I can't figure any other way, then I'll obviously have to let some HVAC company do all the work
What you apparently don't know is there are actually licensed HVAC guys that do side work and they assume responsibility if that is illegal. If it were illegal, I doubt they would be doing side work. I know you are in the business and you think it's unethical for an HVAC guy to do side work... but every indiustry has people that go out and do side work all the time. It happens!
Besides, there's a lot of laws that are un- necessary and stupid and having a law that a licensed HVAC guy cannot do some side work is stupid.
So, I'm going to explore ways to things differently. If I can't figure any other way, then I'll obviously have to let some HVAC company do all the work
What you apparently don't know is there are actually licensed HVAC guys that do side work and they assume responsibility if that is illegal. If it were illegal, I doubt they would be doing side work. I know you are in the business and you think it's unethical for an HVAC guy to do side work... but every indiustry has people that go out and do side work all the time. It happens!
Besides, there's a lot of laws that are un- necessary and stupid and having a law that a licensed HVAC guy cannot do some side work is stupid.
So far I haven't seen any barndominium forums
Lots of articles though.
One thing I'm learning about building a house of any kind is they all think you're loaded with cash and they all trying to charge a premium!
I'll be getting a lot of estimates and it may slow down the progress of the build but I'm not blindly just paying whatever they claim a job costs to do
Reasonable mark up seems to be a thing of the past... now most building trades are greedy and have ridiculously high markups!
Lots of articles though.
One thing I'm learning about building a house of any kind is they all think you're loaded with cash and they all trying to charge a premium!
I'll be getting a lot of estimates and it may slow down the progress of the build but I'm not blindly just paying whatever they claim a job costs to do
Reasonable mark up seems to be a thing of the past... now most building trades are greedy and have ridiculously high markups!
jjredmond71
Active Member
Mark up is greed? How do you think the company you work for stays in business and continues to employ you? I know of not a company in the industry that marks up material 4 or 5x. The vast majority of professional contractors sell at a 50% margin, which is 2x. That allows them to cover not only their material, labor and overhead costs but put away some in order to grow their business.
I apparently know a lot more than you might think; illegal work in the construction industry gets done every hour of every day in this country, and it is the reason why the industry as a whole has the bad name it does. Jacklegs ruin it all for all of us. You are not the first I have fought to do the right thing, and you will not be the last.
For the last time, "an HVAC guy" who is a tech, as you previously described him, is not a licensed professional. A licensed professional is going to place a profit margin on his costs, and all of his work is on the books, not performed as a side gig to save on taxes as a jackleg would. But, being you feel profit is unethical, you will be hiring an unlicensed tech whose labor is his profit. So, yes, it is not only unethical, but illegal as well, no matter what law you think is stupid.
I can only assume building codes that help guarantee the safety and longevity of a structure are stupid as well, or those that require an electrician or gas contractor to be licensed, because they can both blow up your home if they install something incorrectly. Who makes you the arbitor on what is stupid and unnecessary?
I will tell you what is stupid...buying an multi-thousand dollar appliance to cool and heat your home without a product warranty, let alone labor, because the warranty requires a licensed professional, and sometimes even requires the "Authorized Dealer" be trained by the manufacturer as well, in order to provide a warranty. That is about as stupid as one can get.
Verbiage straight from Trane's Base Limited Warranty:
"The Product(s) must be properly installed, operated, and maintained by a licensed HVAC service provider in accordance with the Product specifications or installation,
operation, and maintenance instructions provided by Company with each Product. Failure to conform to such specification and/or installation, operation, and
maintenance instructions shall void this limited warranty."
I think their warranty limitations, as well as every other maufacturer's, are stupid, but what the hell do I know?
jjredmond71
Active Member
What is the purpose of a code or license other than to protect the livlihood of those who live in a structure being built? Please explain how either could protect the tradespeople?
Eddie_T
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I got this hit when looking for forums, I think it's in Texas;
Building Barndominiums | Facebook
Building Barndominiums | Facebook
You must be a liberal... I did not say mark up was greed.
I'm saying excessive mark up is greed. Please read ALL of what people say before jumping to conclusions, that way you aren't misquoting people if that matters to you at all.
No, I never doubted for a minute that you are the world's foremost authority on all things. I totally get it and understand with whom I'm dealing with!
Some of them actually are and are willing to let me buy the hardware and they charge for their time and expertise getting it all up and running.
No need to worry about me. I'll be having a licensed professional do the hookup so I can enjoy having the manufacturers warranty!
It was so nice you could take time out of your busy schedule to spend with us here today!
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Thanks, but I don't do facebook or any social media.
I think there may be home building forums in general, but then again this is the reason I joined House Repair Talk.com
I would think installing HVAC in a new home would be similar to installing on in a barndominiums
