Breaker, Breaker 19...

[Rockrz]

We don't know if the situation is dangerous

If the breakers are known to be faulty, and they are known to be obsolete when compared to today's safety standards... the gamblers in Vegas would put big money on upgrading to new equipment as being the safe thing to do.

All the debating back and forth is a moot point...

 

[nealtw]

If the breakers are known to be faulty, and they are known to be obsolete when compared to today's safety standards... the gamblers in Vegas would put big money on upgrading to new equipment as being the safe thing to do.

All the debating back and forth is a moot point...

Maybe, but the other side is true, The people still in business making panels and breakers would make a lot of money if these things were declared a hazard. We can be sure they have the ear of the people who would make rules about this.

I would sooner find some procedure for inspecting them and how often they should be inspected.

Perhaps the insurance companies have something on that. I wonder if they charge a premium for these panels. They would have first hand knowledge of related problems.

 

[Snoonyb]

I can't say I know enough about breakers to agree or disagree with anything, although I also didn't find much info on how best to deal with fear of a dangerous situation. We don't know if the situation is dangerous but the fear is real.

We always want people to inspect their homes for safety issues and educate themselves on what is safe and what is not.

I don't think I would worry about breaker failure as that is commonly what is said when power no longer is delivered from the breaker. The fear is one being stuck closed that will not turn off the power. To me it seems that is an easy test, if you can turn it off it is not stuck.

The dedication to the pursuit of the "evolving agenda," causes the question of, what's really behind this, what is the motivation, why the dedication too attempting to force this property owner into a subordinate position, instead of moving to a residence that has a brand of electric service panel that meets your approval?

 

[Rockrz]

I'm going to treat this much in the same way I approach my vehicles... if it's really old, I'm going to replace it to help minimize the possibility of a breakdown.

The major difference is on my car, if it breaks down it'll most likely be a situation where I can pull over and call a wrecker or maybe the car won't start... none of which is a real problem other than an inconvenience.

With breakers in a house handling electrical current... a break down in that situation could be much more than just an inconvenience!

This situation could cause loss of all possessions or even death so the stakes are much, much higher.

I'm not much on gambling, so letting it ride after learning these breakers are known to be faulty, and they are known to be obsolete when compared to today's safety standards... is not for me.

But then again, I don't go to Vegas and lose money either like a lot of folks do!

 

[Rockrz]

The dedication to the pursuit of the "evolving agenda," causes the question of, what's really behind this, what is the motivation, why the dedication too attempting to force this property owner into a subordinate position, instead of moving to a residence that has a brand of electric service panel that meets your approval?

Does safety only apply to you and your family... but not to others?

If so, you have no business renting property to other human beings to live in because you apply a different standard to tenants than you do your own family.

I can assure you that if the house burned down, I would sue the living crap out of them because I'm fixing to document to the land lord that they have already dropped the ball by not having an expert come in and see that the brand of breakers in this house are known are known to be faulty, and they are known to be obsolete.

Did I mention the house is almost 50 years old??? Does that not warrant taking a close look at the original breakers still in the house and researching to see if this brand has had issues with their product???

And, if the housed burned and someone died... they can go to prison for being responsible for someone dying! Stuff like this happens...

So, if you are a landload and you care anything about others as well as keeping your business and your personal freedom... it's in your best interest to make things as safe as possible and document that you are doing so.

Go talk to a few lawyers and a few prosecutors about all this... they'll let you know whassup.


.

 

[nealtw]

The dedication to the pursuit of the "evolving agenda," causes the question of, what's really behind this, what is the motivation, why the dedication too attempting to force this property owner into a subordinate position, instead of moving to a residence that has a brand of electric service panel that meets your approval?

We could, with out much effort believe that this guy want to rent a Cadillac for the price of a Austin.

We could believe he has slumlord that he pays rent to.

Or we could believe that it costs money to move, uprooting kids from schools or what ever that entails.

It doesn't really matter what we think, I suspect hundreds or thousands or millions of people are living in the same situation and discussing it in public is a good exercise.

 

[Rockrz]

And don't forget... under the laws on many states, tenants have more rights than landlords!

 

[nealtw]

And don't forget... under the laws on many states, tenants have more rights than landlords!

But you do want to know that you are right about a complaint before you ruffle feathers with the landlord.

 

[Snoonyb]

We could, with out much effort believe that this guy want to rent a Cadillac for the price of a Austin.

We could believe he has slumlord that he pays rent to.

Or we could believe that it costs money to move, uprooting kids from schools or what ever that entails.

It doesn't really matter what we think, I suspect hundreds or thousands or millions of people are living in the same situation and discussing it in public is a good exercise.

Having a discussion is one thing.

Demanding a property owner assuage your paranoia based upon incomplete probabilities of a failure which there is no record of, at that property, is another.

 

[Snoonyb]

Does safety only apply to you and your family... but not to others?

If so, you have no business renting property to other human beings to live in because you apply a different standard to tenants than you do your own family.

I can assure you that if the house burned down, I would sue the living crap out of them because I'm fixing to document to the land lord that they have already dropped the ball by not having an expert come in and see that the brand of breakers in this house are known are known to be faulty, and they are known to be obsolete.

Did I mention the house is almost 50 years old??? Does that not warrant taking a close look at the original breakers still in the house and researching to see if this brand has had issues with their product???

And, if the housed burned and someone died... they can go to prison for being responsible for someone dying! Stuff like this happens...

So, if you are a landload and you care anything about others as well as keeping your business and your personal freedom... it's in your best interest to make things as safe as possible and document that you are doing so.

Go talk to a few lawyers and a few prosecutors about all this... they'll let you know whassup.


.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

[nealtw]

Having a discussion is one thing.

Demanding a property owner assuage your paranoia based upon incomplete probabilities of a failure which there is no record of, at that property, is another.

Just because some one has paranoia doesn't make him wrong.:trophy:

I think the question is, is there a procedure to follow when inspecting this that would prove that it is not presently dangerous and how often should it be done.

Only recently the insurance companies have rejected K&T wiring.

 

[Snoonyb]

Just because some one has paranoia doesn't make him wrong.:trophy:

It also, does not make them right.

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.

I think the question is, is there a procedure to follow when inspecting this that would prove that it is not presently dangerous and how often should it be done.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

There are hundreds of FP and Zinsco panels in operation in this area. In fact I coud relate to you the methods of changing/upgrading these panels, that used to be the practice before the free space requirements in the panels were changed

Only recently the insurance companies have rejected K&T wiring.

It's been well over 10yrs. around here, and was in response to insulation mandates.

 

[nealtw]

It also, does not make them right.

The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.



If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

There are hundreds of FP and Zinsco panels in operation in this area. In fact I coud relate to you the methods of changing/upgrading these panels, that used to be the practice before the free space requirements in the panels were changed



It's been well over 10yrs. around here, and was in response to insulation mandates.

These people leave no question in there opinion about replacing these things.
Then the question would be is that enough to present to the landlord.
http://www.boyselectricllc.com/uploads/Panel_Information.pdf

Read the disclaimer at the bottom

 

[Snoonyb]

These people leave no question in there opinion about replacing these things.
Then the question would be is that enough to present to the landlord.
http://www.boyselectricllc.com/uploads/Panel_Information.pdf

Read the disclaimer at the bottom

I agree with the information presented.

FP parts are extremely difficult to find, so the automatic recommendation is to upgrade. It's more about the value of time, failed efforts as well as the serviceability of present day equip.

As for the Zinsco systems, both "MAY" be problematic if improperly loaded and serviced.

Upon what grounds would you "demand," of the landlord, as the OP has said he would?

Supposition?

You see, the operative word in the link, is "MAY".

 

[nealtw]

I agree with the information presented.

FP parts are extremely difficult to find, so the automatic recommendation is to upgrade. It's more about the value of time, failed efforts as well as the serviceability of present day equip.

As for the Zinsco systems, both "MAY" be problematic if improperly loaded and serviced.

Upon what grounds would you "demand," of the landlord, as the OP has said he would?

Supposition?

You see, the operative word in the link, is "MAY".

I suspect his fear is real and he will continue to look for some way to force the landlord.

If I was in that house with the same fear for my family, I would have it inspected for defects like the photos in his link, that would help convince the landlord.
If nothing was found and I was still fearful and I wanted to stay in the house I might offer to pay for part of the upgrade, maybe a side contract to the lease to increase the rent for some amount for so many month.

 

[Snoonyb]

I suspect his fear is real and he will continue to look for some way to force the landlord.

The presumption of guilt, without evidence of attributable fault, is a failed policy.

If I was in that house with the same fear for my family, I would have it inspected for defects like the photos in his link, that would help convince the landlord.

Were I the tenant I would present my concerns to the property owner and ask for a meeting whereby I could present the basis for my concerns.

This then allows the owner to evaluate the viability of those concerns and respond or not.

If nothing was found and I was still fearful and I wanted to stay in the house I might offer to pay for part of the upgrade, maybe a side contract to the lease to increase the rent for some amount for so many month.

The owner may decide that because he has plans to upgrade the property, and the service upgrade would necessarily be part of that upgrade, and the tenant is informed of that.

Or he may say the the improvement will be so disruptive that he plans to vacate the building and the notice will be forthcoming.

 

[Rockrz]

But you do want to know that you are right about a complaint before you ruffle feathers with the landlord.

I'll be taking this directly to the landlord and working with them to resolve this issue for the sake of safety.

If the house burns down... the boom will be lowered legally and financially to absolutely ruin them financially and depending on the extent of what happens all avenues will be pursued to see that big government comes in and squishes them like a bug!

Don't worry, they are reasonably minded people who have already spent money on other repairs to keep the property in good shape. I'm sure we'll be able to come to a good conclusion on this.

based upon incomplete probabilities of a failure which there is no record of

EPIC FAIL... there is actually documentation that the brand of breakers I'm speaking of are in fact faulty and are in fact obsolete.

If this is how you do business, God help you if something serious happens to any of your tenants because you can easily experience very bad consequences for your lack of knowledge and wisdom.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

That's a good way to get in trouble badly when it comes to electricity.

This is like the folks that don't want to trim trees... and after a tree / limb causes damage, then they want to do something.

Like closing the gate after all the cows get out... this is ignorance gone to seed when dealing with electricity!

Sure, on things that don't matter this is not a bad way of looking at it since everything cannot be perfect. Electricity is a whole different animal.

 

[Snoonyb]

I'll be taking this directly to the landlord and working with them to resolve this issue for the sake of safety.

Don't worry, they are reasonably minded people who have already spent money on other repairs to keep the property in good shape. I'm sure we'll be able to come to a good conclusion on this.

One of the few practical comments you've made.

If the house burns down... the boom will be lowered legally and financially to absolutely ruin them financially and depending on the extent of what happens all avenues will be pursued to see that big government comes in and squishes them like a bug!

Talk about BS.

EPIC FAIL... there is actually documentation that the brand of breakers I'm speaking of are in fact faulty and are in fact obsolete.

But not where you are a tenant.

If this is how you do business, God help you if something serious happens to any of your tenants because you can easily experience very bad consequences for your lack of knowledge and wisdom.

It won't.

That's a good way to get in trouble badly when it comes to electricity.

Being subordinate to some pontificator on the internet!

Give me a break!

This is like the folks that don't want to trim trees... and after a tree / limb causes damage, then they want to do something.

Like closing the gate after all the cows get out... this is ignorance gone to seed when dealing with electricity!

You haven't got a clue.

Sure, on things that don't matter this is not a bad way of looking at it since everything cannot be perfect. Electricity is a whole different animal.

Everything matters, proportionately.

 

[Rockrz]

Maybe someday you'll have opportunity to play the game... "Fun with Lawyers" when you have not done your due diligence and have damaged or killed someone.

You deserve what you get just for being a smart aleck! :

If you had a brain, you'd take it out and play with it...



.

 

[Snoonyb]

Maybe someday you'll have opportunity to play the game... "Fun with Lawyers" when you have not done your due diligence and have damaged or killed someone.

You deserve what you get just for being a smart aleck! :

If you had a brain, you'd take it out and play with it...



.

That doesn't happen to those of us who are personally responsible for the outcome of our action, and do not expect anyone else to carry our water.

It's simply being smarter than what you are working on.