New Driveway - cracked

[GottHR-TN]

My fiancé and I just had a contractor install a new driveway, the main contractor installed the form and he used a cement subcontractor, poured the driveway mid-morning on a Friday, it was a windy/hot day that reached a high of approximately 93 degrees in the afternoon.

The contractor finished around 2-2:30pm and had sprayed the completed driveway with a garden hose a few times after they had swept it, no expansion joints had been installed during the pour. He mentioned that I could spray it a few times to help it stay cooler. I went out at 3:30pm (to spray) and discovered a large crack that ran the entire width of the driveway. I informed the contractor and he said he would be out Monday morning to inspect it and "cut the lines (wet cut). I asked him if this meant expansion joints and if these should have been done during the pour or soon after (within 24 hrs) but he did not respond.

The contractor came out Monday with a saw and wet cut the lines in the driveway. Needless to say I was not happy that my brand new driveway had a crack the entire length of the driveway. The contractor and subcontractor both said this can sometimes happen.... I asked what the options were to correct and of course they said not really anything could be done, I responded with what about cutting out that section and re-pouring.... of course this involves more time / cost on their part and the main contractor said he would not do that.... I responded that I'm not paying top dollar for a new driveway that had a crack the entire width. I realize concrete can/will crack but nothing this major on a new driveway and I expect problems down the road, much earlier than I should have to deal with considering a new driveway.

I was hoping for thoughts from knowledgeable concrete people, I'd certainly appreciate feedback and suggestions on how to proceed since the contractor is saying that there's nothing they will do and I pretty much have to accept it as it is. I have attached some pics.

Frustrated new driveway owner

 

[Snoonyb]

Welcome.
We just added 8' to our driveway 3' right, 5' left, ea. saw cut 3 places. We also added a 10 x18' patio slab, stamped and cut in 4 places.

The cuts are not all the way thru, and are designed to prevent random cracking, like you have experienced.

 

[GottHR-TN]

Thanks for your input, I understand that the cuts are designed to prevent random cracking but aren't they supposed to be done during the pour or within 24 hrs.... not almost 3 days later? Although this may be a non-issue because the crack appeared the same day the concrete was poured and an hour or so after the contractor had finished smoothing and sweeping the driveway and had left for the day.

I know that concrete can crack and I'm not necessarily wanting to play the blame game, but I do want honest feedback on why this major a crack happened (likely with heat it dried too quickly) , the contractor said it might have been the concrete company mix, maybe the slope was too steep, it was hot outside, subcontractor (cement guy) said it wasn't his fault and kinda implied maybe it was the main contractors form.... we'll never know for sure but is this considered "acceptable" in this industry?..... should the contractor have done a better job of keeping the driveway cool or making the decision not to pour on that hot a day? Just want feedback on what my options are: Can it be cut out and replaced successfully, should I basically demand either they fix it or reduce the price to account for a deficient product? I don't feel I should pay full price for a driveway that has that major a flaw in it.

 

[user 4883]

Clearly something was not done correctly. Withhold final payment until the problem has been rectified.

 

[Snoonyb]

Ours were cut as soon as the pour would support the saw.

The person/co that did the pour should have addressed this, however the contractor is responsible for the sub.

Forms are simply a perimeter definer.

We discussed ALL the aspects of the pour, prior to the agreement, IE expansion joint, shape, color, texture, and saw cutting, as well as soil conditions. I'd of had it cut right away as well as having expansion joints, if the new slab was bound between other fixed objects.

As for the repair. Perhaps they'd be interested in adding a decorative paver strip, or two.

It's a negotiation, be pragmatic.

 

[bud16415]

Thanks for your input, I understand that the cuts are designed to prevent random cracking but aren't they supposed to be done during the pour or within 24 hrs.... not almost 3 days later? Although this may be a non-issue because the crack appeared the same day the concrete was poured and an hour or so after the contractor had finished smoothing and sweeping the driveway and had left for the day.

I know that concrete can crack and I'm not necessarily wanting to play the blame game, but I do want honest feedback on why this major a crack happened (likely with heat it dried too quickly) , the contractor said it might have been the concrete company mix, maybe the slope was too steep, it was hot outside, subcontractor (cement guy) said it wasn't his fault and kinda implied maybe it was the main contractors form.... we'll never know for sure but is this considered "acceptable" in this industry?..... should the contractor have done a better job of keeping the driveway cool or making the decision not to pour on that hot a day? Just want feedback on what my options are: Can it be cut out and replaced successfully, should I basically demand either they fix it or reduce the price to account for a deficient product? I don't feel I should pay full price for a driveway that has that major a flaw in it.

Have you paid him in full? Did you sign a contract? Is there fine print in the contract?



Unfortunately stuff like this happens all the time, and as you have said everyone is pointing fingers at the other guy and the truth my never be known. The problem is actually most likely a combination of all the factors.



These things often become legal and drawn out and in the end no one wins.



You could have asked in advance for wording that the driveway would be crack free for a period of 90 days and at that point the contractor would receive the final draw of the payment and he may have walked away or raised the price. You could have spec-ed the mix and the method or hired a general contractor to act for you on specs. All kinds of what ifs.



If it were mine and I would have not paid in full until I was satisfied I might hand him a check minus X and say that’s for the crack or negotiate a value for the crack.



I once had a small pole barn built and the contractor came for his money and I told him you need to paint the man door and rake up the scrap metal around the job site. He said how’s 500 bucks? I wrote a check for 500 less than the quote we shook hands and parted company. Took me an hour to finish the job and the easiest 500 bucks I ever made.

I know the crack is a different matter for you as you felt you were paying for a perfect job and didn’t get it. There should be some effort on the contractors part to make you happier and I don’t know what that is and how far you will be willing to go to push it.

 

[oldognewtrick]

Have you paid him in full yet?

 

[GottHR-TN]

The contractor gave me an estimate with a general work description (driveway dimensions, removing previous) but that was all. Neither of us signed it so it was very general without many specifics like some of the things you've all pointed out. I was not knowledgeable about concrete and I should have done more homework, but the contractor came recommended by a real estate friend of ours so I trusted that things would work out given we were so busy doing inside home renovations......I'm usually better about things like that. In the end I agree that this is now either a negotiation/legal issue, and the legal as you say is typically the worst scenario for everyone. I'm not sure what to offer as a "settlement"... if the driveway cracks completely in a year and settles then I could have to pay quite a bit for another contractor to fix it or have many years of just dealing with it. Do any of you think it could be fixed by cutting out the section with the crack and re-pouring? The decorative paver is an interesting suggestion but at this point I wouldn't trust them to do it right and it would involve cutting out a fairly large section anyway so I'd prefer just to have it replaced it that's something that's possible without further compromising the entire driveway.

 

[GottHR-TN]

Oh, and also I have not payed him anything for the driveway yet. He also did a retaining wall (which there were issues with also) and I did pay him for most of that work.

 

[oldognewtrick]

You have to pay him something, negotiate a settle that's fair for you. Ask him if he would accept this at his house or how he's going to fix it.

 

[GottHR-TN]

Yes I certainly will pay him for the driveway, but not the full price in the estimate if he refuses to do anything to fix the problem. He still hasn't completed the retaining wall/grading so I've not settled that work with him yet. I really would rather have it fixed so that it's right than try to come up with a figure to reduce. That figure would likely end up being much lower than the future repair cost if things become much worse a year or two down the road.

 

[GottHR-TN]

So , do you all think that cutting out the section and re-pouring is an option? Would this cause any issues with the integrity of the driveway as I think this is the only recourse to make it right and not have the large crack across the driveway.

 

[Snoonyb]

You could add one of these, incase the level change; https://www.amazon.com/Bump-Ahead-Sign-SmartSign-Aluminum/dp/B0089ONG00:cool:

 

[bud16415]

So , do you all think that cutting out the section and re-pouring is an option? Would this cause any issues with the integrity of the driveway as I think this is the only recourse to make it right and not have the large crack across the driveway.

Yes a large section could be removed and replaced. Do you know what reinforcement was placed in the driveway before being poured? The rebar or mesh would be cut and then the new section would not be tied to the other pieces. They can work around that to some degree.

 

[Flyover]

I don't have anything "helpful" to add, other than to say this really sucks and I'm sorry it happened to you. I know it is probably really stressful. I hope you can eventually reach a resolution that is at least a little better.

A house is a system of systems of systems, every part more complicated than you realize.

The good news is you're here on this forum, where you can learn a ton from the other members (except me, I'm mostly learning from them too!) about every little thing in your house -- how it works, how to fix it when it breaks, or at least what to look for when you hire a pro.

Good luck with this. My question to everyone else is: if nothing gets done and the driveway just cures with that crack in it, aside from looks what are the real risks as far as the driveway is concerned? Will it start crumbling along the crack because it's not a straight line? (I know TN has fairly mild winters but I think it still gets below freezing, right?) Etc.

 

[GottHR-TN]

Yes, Tennessee does have relatively mild winters but it does get below freezing quite a few times every winter. The question you pose are the things I'd really like some insight on from the people who are much more knowledgeable than I in this area. I know you can never be sure but I have a feeling that given the crack extends across the entire width of the driveway any freezing water will take it's toll relatively quickly. To answer the previous poster question, I was at work when they poured it so I do not know what re-enforcements were put in... if a new section was put in could they tie into the re-bar that is in the remaining sections? I would think that would very difficult if not impossible. Has anyone had a similar issue where they were able to successfully replace a section in the middle of the driveway. As always - appreciate the input

 

[Snoonyb]

When it's cut the reinforcement, if any, will be cut at the same time.

If rebar was used, the process, during the pour is either to use pillow blocks or to lift it off the ground so that the concrete encases it, and if 6-6, 10-10 mesh was used, it's just lifted as they go.

It is common to dowel rebar into concert to attach adjoining elements, however I wouldn't 't do that in your case, I'd leave it to float.

 

[GottHR-TN]

Thank you for that input Snoobyb.... so what I'm understanding you to stay is that you would leave the section to float which means not re-enforcing it with the two adjacent pieces that would be on other side, would that make it more prone to settling and not being in line with the other two adjacent pieces?

 

[Snoonyb]

1st, I would ask if the pour was reinforced, and how.

The repair may settle or break, depending upon the size of the repair, and that's why I suggested deco pavers.

As it stands, you could also fill the crack with SIKA-FLEX. Adhesives & Sealants

I prefer the adhesive, not the self-levelling.

 

[Steve123]

I am no expert. All concrete cracks, but I tend to agree with your position that it should not crack the day of the pour. That likely is a shrinkage crack.

Your driveway looks long, but not outrageous long. I don't know industry standards, but I wonder if that should have been poured with an expansion joint (not control cut) in the center of the length. Pretty sure that would have required two pours to put the expansion joint in (pour first half, wait for concrete to sufficiently set, remove end form and place joint material, pour other half).

Maybe somebody else here knows the industry standards for when an intermediate expansion joint is needed.