Replacing 3 way Switch

[bjmcgoo22]

Hi,

I'm attempting to replace an old light switch in the hallway. The switch controls a hall light that is controlled by 2 other switches located in different locations. There is another switch (a 2 way) housed in the junction box that controls the outside porch light.

I wired the new switch according to what I've found online and now it will not turn the light on unless the switch down the hall is turned on.

I've researched 3 way switches and can't find a setup that resembles mine.

This is what I'm dealing with: http://imgur.com/OTclbro

When I took the old switch out, I was hasty and didn't take note of how exactly it was installed but the two switches were connected together with a short pigtail (red in the diagram).

Any idea why these two would be connected together?

Suggestions how the new switch should be wired?

 

[nealtw]

3 way switches is for 2 switches
4 way if for 3 switches, so google 4 way wiring and see if that helps.
I can not access your photos.

 

[JoeD]

If you did not change any of the other switches then the problem is in the new switch.
You have the wrong wire on the COMMON terminal. The common terminal will be black and often marked COMMON.
I hope you didn't change any of the other wiring in the switch box and only transferred the three wires from the old switch to the new switch. Take one of the wires from the not common terminal and swap it with the common terminal. Test it. If it still doesn't work then swap the third wire with the common.

 

[bjmcgoo22]

I can not access your photos.

Try the pic now.

http://imgur.com/OTclbro

 

[nealtw]

Try the pic now.

http://imgur.com/OTclbro

Try Joe's instruction.
And yes the photo is there, but there should be three wires at each switch.

 

[bjmcgoo22]

Thanks, I'll give it a shot.

 

[afjes_2016]

Something does not look right here. The old switch was a single pole switch according to your diagram and you are replacing it with a 3 way switch but then in the diagram there is no cable with three wires in it, only 2. If this were a three way set up you would have at least one cable with 3 wires in it (black, red, white). Just because there is a red jumper being used does not indicate it is a 3 way set up. Someone may have had red wire and not black when making the jumper.

Best to take photos of the boxes so we can see the wires clearly.

 

[Kabris]

For whatever reason, 3-way switches of different brands have various configurations, but the black screw is always your common and the others the travelers. I believe I've already seen the common as a brass screw and the others different.

 

[nealtw]

What was the problem with the old switch and did it ever work properly?

 

[afjes_2016]

For whatever reason, 3-way switches of different brands have various configurations, but the black screw is always your common and the others the travelers. I believe I've already seen the common as a brass screw and the others different.

But again, the old switch was a single pole switch (you show replacing with a 3 way switch) and there is no cable with 3 conductors. I say this only according to your diagram. There must be at least one 3 conductor cable (black,red,white)in the box if we are talking about a 3 way switch. Photos would help please.

Unusual, even though various brands have different configurations there should be 3 screws plus a ground screw for a 3 way total 4 screws. The original "old" switch you show would have had only two screws plus a ground screw; 3 in total. Still there should be at least one cable with 3 conductors plus a ground.

Note: if the light is controlled by "2 other locations" which is what the OP stated originally then the switch in question can only be either a 3 way or a 4 way switch.

3 way switch will have a total of four screws including the ground
4 way switch will have a total of 5 screws including the ground.

And also as NealTw asked, why are you replacing the switch to begin with? What was the problem with the old switch?

Just can't wrap my head around why you are replacing a single pole switch with a 3 way switch unless you diagram is showing a single pole switch and the diagram is including the ground screw and we are assuming it is a 3 way because of that. This is why i say pics would help us.

 

[nealtw]

But again, the old switch was a single pole switch (you show replacing with a 3 way switch) and there is no cable with 3 conductors. I say this only according to your diagram. There must be at least one 3 conductor cable (black,red,white)in the box if we are talking about a 3 way switch. Photos would help please.

Unusual, even though various brands have different configurations there should be 3 screws plus a ground screw for a 3 way total 4 screws. The original "old" switch you show would have had only two screws plus a ground screw; 3 in total. Still there should be at least one cable with 3 conductors plus a ground.

Note: if the light is controlled by "2 other locations" which is what you stated originally then the switch in question can only be either a 3 way or a 4 way switch.

3 way switch will have a total of four screws including the ground
4 way switch will have a total of 5 screws including the ground.

I think the old switch he is showing is the other switch in the box for the outside light, not the one being replaced.

Is there a chance that someone could have used the white as a red and left out the neutral and would that work.

 

[afjes_2016]

NealTw: Look at my post again. I just updated it and it probably did not post before you posted.

I think we are confusing his 3 way with a single pole but his single pole diagram is including the ground screw making it a total of 3 screws. Notice there is no cable with 3 conductors which of course you need with a 3 or 4 way switch. The OP said it is controlled from 2 other locations so therefore there must be at least one 4 way and 2 three way switches.

He needs to take a photo

 

[nealtw]

NealTw: Look at my post again. I just updated it and it probably did not post before you posted.

I think we are confusing his 3 way with a single pole but his single pole diagram is including the ground screw making it a total of 3 screws. Notice there is no cable with 3 conductors which of course you need with a 3 or 4 way switch. The OP said it is controlled from 2 other locations so therefore there must be at least one 4 way and 2 three way switches.

He needs to take a photo

He likely found his mistake and has it working and will leave us guessing:down:

 

[afjes_2016]

He likely found his mistake and has it working and will leave us guessing:down:

:agree: I hate when that happens! Urgh!!

 

[afjes_2016]

...Is there a chance that someone could have used the white as a red and left out the neutral and would that work.

Quite honestly at this point it is hard to tell. But, remember now, no 3 conductor cable, replacing a single pole switch with a 3 way it is possible it is a switch loop. The OP may be confused. Again, if no three conductor cable in the box no way a 3 or 4 way switch then.

I would discard the "red" wire at this point because according to the diagram it is only a jumper. You can use any color conductor as a jumper.

 

[bjmcgoo22]

OK, just got home from work and ready to fix this thing. Thanks for everybody's comments. I'm about to try and switch around the wires like Joe suggested but I took a few photos to share.

And to answer the question, I'm replacing the switch because it no longer works correctly and gets stuck in the middle (its one of those "quiet" switches). After taking the old one out of the box, I notice the poles are rusted and the housing is cracked so definitely in need of replacing.

Here are photos of what I'm working with (the newly installed switch is on the right):

Wires: http://imgur.com/HSOxvf2

Wires going to left switch (porch light/ only controlled by this switch): http://imgur.com/b0ccP1l

How I currently have new switch configured (I was 99% sure this is how the old one was set up / the black wire (jumper?) is connected to the other side of new switch on the traveler screw: http://imgur.com/qyErlWS

As you can see, no ground wires at all. I guess it's grounded through the box and conduit?


Thanks for all the help with this.



PS, I wouldn't leave you hanging, just had to work 12 hrs...

 

[JoeD]

The black wire going from one switch to the other is the common. Put it under the black common screw.

Before you do that you need to fix the issue of two wires under one screw. That is not allowed. Take the power wire and nut two short black pigtails to it. Take the other end of the pigtails and connect to the switches.

 

[afjes_2016]

OK, just got home from work and ready to fix this thing. Thanks for everybody's comments. I'm about to try and switch around the wires like Joe suggested but I took a few photos to share.

And to answer the question, I'm replacing the switch because it no longer works correctly and gets stuck in the middle (its one of those "quiet" switches). After taking the old one out of the box, I notice the poles are rusted and the housing is cracked so definitely in need of replacing.

Here are photos of what I'm working with (the newly installed switch is on the right):

Wires: http://imgur.com/HSOxvf2

Wires going to left switch (porch light/ only controlled by this switch): http://imgur.com/b0ccP1l

How I currently have new switch configured (I was 99% sure this is how the old one was set up / the black wire (jumper?) is connected to the other side of new switch on the traveler screw: http://imgur.com/qyErlWS

As you can see, no ground wires at all. I guess it's grounded through the box and conduit?


Thanks for all the help with this.



PS, I wouldn't leave you hanging, just had to work 12 hrs...

Wait wait wait. Something is not right here. Lets back up here please for a moment. According to your original diagram there were no cables (romexes with three conductors). Also you seemed to be trying to replace a single pole switch with a 3 way switch.

These pictures are out of focus and zoomed in way too far.

This photo HERE shows a three way (from what I can tell) on the right side and a single pole on the left side with a jumper going from the right switch (3 way) to the left switch (single pole) and makes no sense at all.

Sorry bjmcgoo22 something does not make sense here. The switch on the right looks as though it is a 3 way switch (dark screw on right side indicating a common screw). Why is this 3 way switch here first of all and why is there a jumper going from where a traveler should be to the switch on the left side? I ask why is this 3 way switch here first of all because there is no cable with 3 conductors in this box. Then you state that this switch BOX is one of two other switches that controls the lights (4 way switch set up). If this was the case then this switch box would have at least once romex with 3 conductors (if it was a 3 ways switch) and if it was a 4 way switch it would have a least two romexes with 3 conductors.

 

[afjes_2016]

The black wire going from one switch to the other is the common. Put it under the black common screw.

Before you do that you need to fix the issue of two wires under one screw. That is not allowed. Take the power wire and nut two short black pigtails to it. Take the other end of the pigtails and connect to the switches.

Yes you can't have two wires under one screw :agree: but still, why is there a jumper from the switch on the right (which seems to be a 3 ways switch) to the switch on the left side?? Again, there are no romexes with 3 conductors (red,blad and white). The jumper is going from what is a traveler position to the switch on the left side. Does not make sense.

 

[nealtw]

Pull the other two switches and leave the wires connected and take pictures. One should have 3 wires( screws) and one should have 4 wires( screws)