Seismic Retrofit while Underpinning vs Underpinning for Heavy Traffic

[FrostyTurnip]

Dear Expert and Well-Versed,

Before I ask my question, I want to provide a little background and also a reality check. I have a back ground as a drafter in the architectural field primarily consisting of large industrial scale construction, large retail and similar. Full range of plans from site, grade, floor plans, elevations, cut elevations and similar for foundation, electrical, mechanical and plumbing.

That being said: I am just a drafter. No license in any of the above. (I went to arch college. I have the gift, but I cannot do the math.)

I am just a homeowner getting ready to do a massive work of underpinning my foundations while retrofitting for seismic activity, repairing collapsing framing (not in that order lol), rebuilding portions of the roof and it looks like I’m going to need to jack the bad boy up, maybe even raise the crawlspace. Holy cow!

If I sound assertive and my vocabulary appears to contain construction wisdom, think otherwise.

I welcome all comments, even a “Light a match”. I do not mind humor, but my own generally sucks. I do ask that if you do not know the answer to my questions, please don’t shoot from the hip without experience. This is to avoid confusion.

I can read well and appreciate any useful tips and sources from which to learn.

I am only in the deciding phase. I have a structural engineer that has yet to come out. I’m contacting a lawyer for real estate advice. Maybe I shouldn’t do much at all. |

Here’s my universal question about my foundation repair work that might be done:

Soil is awful - great for gardening - but high organic clay
House is on a gentle slope.
Suffering water damage from neglect and seepage.
Heavy semi traffic 20 feet in front of house where the soil has moved severely.

Seismic ACTIVITY. (Central Oklahoma) SHEESH

If I need to underpin or make serious alterations to the foundation, I am considering retrofitting them for seismic activity. This is not something any other home or building has in my city. (Would it be worth it in resale value home value?)

If my foundation is retrofitted for seismic activity (retro framing aside), will this be sufficient to arrrest the issues caused from Heavy Traffic? Like, 2 birds with one stone?

I think this one is a big “Depends” and I will definitely consult the structural engineer, but you know what? I bet the structural engineer doesn’t know squat about seismic retrofitting.

Thanks and tight frames to you all!

 

[Snoonyb]

Welcome.
Would this be in contemplation of New Madrid fault, as an eventuality?

 

[FrostyTurnip]

Unfortunately, no. However, the New Madrid fault would give us a beach front property with a tolerance of about 100 miles. But, yeah, that’d finish her off. LOL At least we could go swimming!

In 2014, Oklahoma surpassed Alaska and California with having the greatest number of quakes. These were all man-made. The Oklahoma Corporation Commission either told them to cap injection wells or reduce volumes being injected. After that, things got quiet again. This is the bulk of my foundation and structural problems. Neglect is bad, but . . .

I live in Cushing, “The World’s Pipeline Central”. I don’t think their pipelines are central anymore, but they’re all about oil and proud of it.

However, about ten days ago, there was a 5 pointer and we were on the edge of it. I was fairly ‘blah’ about house repairs until that day. And this quake was natural.

 

[Snoonyb]

There are a couple of expatriates, here-in, from tectonics central.

Structural reinforcing has a cost/benefit factor, and how long will you need to occupy, for equalization, too become profit.

If you aren't seeing any binding of the action of windows and doors, the structure itself is loose enough to self-heal, as a response to the shaking.

Terracing can add an esthetic to the land slippage, but again, cost/benefit.

 

[FrostyTurnip]

Thank you for your contribution. I think the house would last a few decades without retrofitting for quakes if we change out the soil around the foundations and secure the existing. This is under the assumption the quakes will not become problematic again.

I look forward to speaking with a structural engineer.

That’s an excellent point about the terracing. I suspect that strategically located swales and berms at the rear of the house would help elevate some soil movement. I’ll be tiling the front, sides and maybe the foundation footers, depending on what the engineer suggests.

I truly hope I do not need a soil evaluation and that it can be assumptive.

 

[Snoonyb]

It jurisdictionally will affect the "assumption" of compaction, but interestingly, when road grading, the disturbed soils, within the public rightofway, but not paved, are left only marginally compacted, and that is likely a source of your slippage.

 

[FrostyTurnip]

Yesterday I measured and found the distance from the edge of the road to the foundation of the house to be 30’-0”. The heavy traffic are semi rigs to and from a local grain mill. They’re so heavy and the house so weak, it is like living next to a train track.

I’m looking in to the potential of the local Grain Mill helping with costs. But I might avoid that. I don’t want to rock the boat locally.

The city, however, could help a ton. They tore up the easement in the front to install lines for a new construction nearby. When they did that, it changed the composition of the soil. They do not have proper storm water run off. There is a creek nearby. They might be willing to install tiles or some type of drainage there.

I don’t have full estimates, yet, but the cost of the foundation, framing and roof will add up to more than the value of the entire property.

 

[tomtheelder2020]

In the past 20 years, the largest OK earthquake was 5.8 which doesn't seem like much to get excited about (discounting New Madrid activity). Based on 8 years as an engineering geologist, 22 years related to foundation construction, I think you should talk to a geotechnical engineer before the structural engineer.

 

[FrostyTurnip]

In the past 20 years, the largest OK earthquake was 5.8 which doesn't seem like much to get excited about (discounting New Madrid activity). Based on 8 years as an engineering geologist, 22 years related to foundation construction, I think you should talk to a geotechnical engineer before the structural engineer.

I was afraid someone was going to suggest soil testing ($$$). Yet, I’m certain the structure eng will recommend if he needs cuz I didn’t choose a riff-raff one. Soil analysis was never a part of my prior work, so I know nuttin’ ‘bout dat except they come into play.

That 5.8 wasn’t close, but brick and rock buildings went down. My frig nearly toppled. There were smaller ones where the epi was within a mile of my kitchen table. These were from injection wells (personally I think it was the fracking, but they reduce liability to claiming otherwise).

The worst were the constant mini ‘shakes’ - about 12 to 20 a day for weeks on end, as if a semi were constantly butting the side of the house. These subsided intermittently and in coordination with well reductions or shut down. Keep in mind these were shaking the oil tanks, so I wasn’t overly concerned about them continuing. They had to do something. For a time, we’d have a relatively large quake - 2.5 to 3 -on the weekends because they had a skeleton crew or were not paying attention.

I just got off facebook with a local foundation guy where I quizzed him on general knowledge locally regarding beefing for seismic activity. I wondered if he had a clue about local engineers being versed in retro or installation.

“I sure hope so.”

I’ve seen the universal crawlspace foundation details including beef for seismic. If I end up pouring new cement, it’s a no brainer.

I haven’t found anything for beefing up bell bottom piers. I’ll leave that to the struct.

 

[bud16415]

Your house seems to be fairly small single story and frame construction. Have you thought about building a new and proper foundation behind it and moving the house back from the road?

 

[FrostyTurnip]

Your house seems to be fairly small single story and frame construction. Have you thought about building a new and proper foundation behind it and moving the house back from the road?

I have not. And that’s exactly why I’m here. Much appreciated!

When reviewing foundation options pursuant to environmental conditions, I kept thinking, If only it were a new pour, it would be easier and faster.

Would cost more in the long run (materials). I wouldn’t need a contractor as the most important piece for me is the foundation. Can hire day laborers with experience. There are plenty of framers around twiddling their thumbs.

The foundation guy just left. Won’t touch it without a report, rightfully so.

Inspection is only $500. That shocked me as I was expecting thousands. Thousands in the long run, too. He had 2 referrals and one of them is older. Name sounds familiar. I think I’ve done drawings for him. Things come full circle.

 

[FrostyTurnip]

After the foundation guy left, I’ve continued to be puzzled. He is the first to recommend a structural engineer. But when I asked him if they would build the foundation pursuant to an engineer’s specification he almost barked a ‘No’. More than one way to skin a cat in order to save costs or make more money? I’m not too hip with that. When he described using cmu blocks, I was almost offended $300 a linear foot using blocks? Well, I don’t know construction costs with labor, so.

And why am I having such a hard time getting estimates on specifics like lifting a house? I just want to know who and how much to lift the house. That’s it. But they always want to do the foundation work, too. Had the same issue with a local framer. “Dude. I just want you to repair the framing. How much?” ‘Ah well. I’ve lifted many houses, you to set it up on beans .. “

Frustrating.

 

[Snoonyb]

HMMM, interestring. It sounds like you are receiving quotes from only design/build firms.

 

[FrostyTurnip]

HMMM, interestring. It sounds like you are receiving quotes from only design/build firms.

Yeah, well. That’s the bread and butter, I suppose. Even I never wanted to work on Renovation plans. Profit is eaten up in labor because one never knows what they’ll find.

Yet, the foundation guy didn’t seem to comprehend that I was going to give him a full view of its existing condition on paper. I’ll be lifting the subfloors and actually looking. I think some of the floor joists are 24” apart. (Fine for the couple prior to us, but horrible for our needs.)

Meh. I’m def wanting the beef for seismic. I’ll probably do myself and bring in the concrete.

Truly, I don’t mind efficient and legit cutting corners, but not on muh foundation and framing structure. Nope