Shower Floor Leaking

[Sparky617]

Try this: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=membrane+shower+pan+installation If that doesn't work just go to youtube.com and type in membrane shower pan installation in the search box.

 

[ctgriffi]

Might've been better to do this on the front-end, but, anyway... here are some photos. Usually makes things clearer (and much more interesting).

Btw, the drain line goes straight back from the drain flange towards the shower entrance, passes under the cabinet that's just visible on the right-hand side of the first photo. The vent line runs up through the enclosed space between the angled shower wall and the cabinet; currently, there's no access to any of that.

 

[nealtw]

I repaired a simular shower a couple years ago. Tub surround was built out of wood and flat on top so the water sat there and was able to work it's way down into the wood work and around into the far wall. I was able to repair and cover that area with concrete board and seal it with redgard and found a tile that almost matched and replaced the same glass back in place.
I would be really suspect of the far edge of the shelf where it meets the wall, Any cracks there will feed water outside the pan.

 

[Sparky617]

It looks like the leak is near the vent pipe. What is the small white/clear plastic pipe for in the last picture? I once had a leak under my shower that only appeared during a very hard rain, Hurricane Fran was one time it showed up. It turned out to be a bad gasket around the top of the vent pipe on the roof. It had cracked in time due to sun exposure and age. During a very heavy rain there would be enough water running down the outside of the pipe and getting past the cracked gasket to make it inside the house and make a wet spot on my family room ceiling below where the vent pipe did a 90 degree turn from vertical to horizontal. Since yours only shows up after a shower I doubt that is the problem.

If the leak is near the seat I really like Nealtw's last post.

 

[ctgriffi]

Yes, the water appears around the vent pipe cutout, trickles down there, but it's not coming from the vent-T. The small tubing you noticed is one of the PEX supply lines, and, yes, it looks like water collects around there, too, although I've never seen it dripping down from that area.

The bench seat is against the wall, which is at the opposite end, about six feet away from where the leak seems to appear.

 

[nealtw]

I would still be opening the backside of the wall behind the soap dish and or the mixing valve just for a look see.

 

[bud16415]

Let’s use some logic. It leaks a little when used as a shower. It doesn’t leak when the spray is sent just to the center drain. It leaks a lot when the drain is plugged and filled with enough water to back up against the sides. That all tells us it’s in the floor or the first inch of the walls. The water has to find a path out and it’s not coming out the hole for the drain and there is a spilt in the subfloor past that it could also come thru. That rules out the back of the shower. It is coming out the vent stack hole and that strongly suggests the front of the shower. It’s also pooling around the PEX in the same area.

The common place for a membrane to leak is where it is cut and sealed like the drain hole but in this case clearly not the drain hole. The next place it would be cut is around the edges and chances are it was folded up so that leads to one of the three front corners or two front walls.

I would suggest taping the drain shut again and slowly add water. The slope is running to the drain so as you add water the circle of water will get larger. At the point when you see the first leaking where the circle touches the edge should be the problem spots. If I had to guess I would say the sharp point corner at the door. Once you have a clue then you may be able to remove just that area and make a repair.

edit: You could get a can of plumbers putty and make a dam around each area in question also and fill the dammed up area with water to try and find the bad corner.

 

[mako1]

I like to go from the basic to the difficult. Yes, you could rip out the pan and re-do it. Let's try the following:

1. Let the pan dry as much as feasible.
2. Scrape the grout from the corners and re-seal with quality bath caulk. While you are at it, do the vertical corners too. Don't forget the curb.
3. Re-seal all the grout lines in the floor TWICE. Let the sealer setup between applications.
4. Allow all sealer to cure.

Try the leak test again making sure to completely seal the drain flange. If you get no leak, great. If you get a leak, the problem is isolated at the flange. That could be very bad news but lets not borrow trouble ...

IHO That adice is not to good.Grout sealer is not going to fix a poorly installed shower pan .Do you want to fix the problem for a few days or fix it for good?Do it right and take it out and get someone that knows what they are doing to install it properly.Sealing the grout is putting lipstick on a pig.

 

[nealtw]

IHO That adice is not to good.Grout sealer is not going to fix a poorly installed shower pan .Do you want to fix the problem for a few days or fix it for good?Do it right and take it out and get someone that knows what they are doing to install it properly.Sealing the grout is putting lipstick on a pig.

I think I agree, as this might be a problem with the pan, the next question is; can it be fixed wiuthout redoing the whole unit.

 

[bud16415]

Of course ripping it out and putting in a whole new pan and floor or a whole new shower would fix the problem. I don’t think anyone would doubt that advice. If this problem happened right off the get go with a new home that’s exactly what should have happened and at no expense to the homeowner. That’s what I would have insisted of if it was mine. That did happen it sounds like and the owner didn’t act on the problem for a number of years for whatever reason and now wanting a new bath below the drip is a bigger issue and most likely the reasonable statute of limitations on the original builder are way past reasonable.

The question is really does it all have to come out is there a way to find the problem and surgically repair it. The answer may be there isn’t but there is nothing lost in trying as the whole thing will have to go the other way. I agree sealing the tile is a band aid at best. If it is the seal where the wall meets the floor where the water has an easy path inside and it is an area where water is just overspray and not the main flow then maybe some caulk in the corner will make the problem all but go away. Maybe a localized repair could be made to last is the big question.

 

[nealtw]

Bud: Water can do funny things and travel great distance. Adventech type flooring is verygood at holding water evan at the t&g joints. Water that has worked it's way outside the pan from higher on the sidewall might just sit until you add weight that changes the level of the floor a little.
That is why I would do as much checking in places where patching is easier before starting to rip out a shower. In my oldfashion methed I would be cutting drywall anywhere I could to have a look at the outside but today alot can be seen with a snake camera. I would want to see the inside of the tub suround the bench and the wall where the valves are as well as where the soap dish is.

 

[ctgriffi]

Let’s use some logic. It leaks a little when used as a shower. It doesn’t leak when the spray is sent just to the center drain. It leaks a lot when the drain is plugged and filled with enough water to back up...

I like the way your mind works, and I'm seeing it the same way. I think my recommendation is going to be that they bring in a pro to redo the floor/pan. Not cheap or easy, but this is a nice home; needs to be done right.

 

[nealtw]

In this video the deal with how to seal the shelf are and the problems and then have another look at this shower and how they did it.
Even if this problem is the pan there will soon be more problems with the bench. It would be hard to believe that soime one that made mistakes with the pan then went over and above to do a good job everywhere else.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NeEt-37p-hE[/ame]

 

[bud16415]

Water can do a lot of things but I haven’t seen it run up hill from the floor filled with water to an opening at a bench seat and then back down behind the tile and across the sub floor to the point in the basement its coming in. That was the point to my logic to rule out the walls etc. when you take a bucket of water and pour it on the floor it has to be leaking near the floor.
If we assume the contractor did shoddy work and we should bring into question all the work he did as future problems. So if there are a few more bathrooms in the house with tile they could be bad also and should be repaired.
I do agree water could cross the T&G joints in the sub floor so they could go down gouge out a little hole in the seam or drill holes just thru the sub floor all over the place to see if water would come out them I guess.

If you do get a pro to do a new floor I hope you get some feedback of what they find.

 

[nealtw]

No my point was not that water runs uphill but even with a problem with a pan, there will be a problem with the bench and the tub suround.
Once in a while we do see where the bench and the tub suround is built and the pan is extended up to include the bench or tub suround but that is seldem.
The bench and tub suround are built out of wet lumber that is available on a construction site often just days before the tiler comes in. Now you have shrinkage of the lumber the flexing of the surround as the tub is filled and used and the normal flexing of the house which is really hard on any 90* corners that are tiled especially the outside corners like the edge of the bench.

The attitude seem to be, will it out last the warrentee and in most cases the answer is yes.
From the outside I would want to know what was dry and what was wet and then I would do the demo myself or have a handyman do it. and when any or all troubled areas are exposed bring in the pros for suggestions and quotes.