Trying to make sense of late father's wiring diagrams

[zannej]

I recently came across an old folder in a drawer that had many sketches and notes from my father. It included drawings of kitchen plans, house plans, dog house plans, shelf plans, etc. He used CAD I think to do some line drawings and do a general layout of the house. He wrote in notations in pencil for the electrical. I'm trying to decipher them and figure out if they are current (no pun intended) or if things have been changed since the drawings. I'm not sure quite when he drew them. Some I know are from the 80s but the ones on printouts must have been later since we didn't have a printer (or a computer with any sort of drawing tools) in the 80s. So, ones with printed ink must have been from the early 2000s. I do know that there are not outlets in some of the places he drew-- either he was mistaken or things were changed. The layout of the front room has definitely been changed since at least the first drawings. There are sketches with measurements but I don't know if they are inside measurements or outside measurements (I suppose I could find out if I got a long enough tape measure).

(scanner wouldn't work so I had to take photos).


Some notes: The wall switch for the light in bedroom1 also controls the outlet- the switch is duct taped up to prevent switching off the computer/tv in the room. A closet was later added to the front room next to the front door. It has at least one outlet for charging tool batteries and a little light with a pull chain. The outlet and light no longer work. Porch light no longer works. Two outlets in the living room (adjacent to porch) do not work.
He got the location of the switches for the bathroom on the wrong side of the wall (it's on the side with the closet instead-- 3 switches for heat/light/fan). Next to the bathroom door there was a 2nd light switch to the ceiling fan in the middle but tenants removed it so it's a blank wall plate now. H is for the water heater.

His sketch that shows the closets but no wiring diagrams

The sketches are shown with the North at the bottom and south at the top. On the west (right) side of the house there is an outdoor electrical outlet for the exterior AC unit. There is also an outdoor 220v outlet for the broken hot tub near the back door on the east (left) side. There are additional wires going out from some double breakers to the well shed for the water pumps. There's also a line going out to a pole where a lean-to used to be and another line goes down to the workshop. I don't think those are tied to the in-house breaker box though.

Breaker box inside with markings (they may no longer be accurate). I'm not sure what all of the initials mean. I think "DR" might be "Dave's Room" but am not certain. The light in that hallway no longer works so it's hard to see.


After my father passed, we had the AC replaced. He said that somehow the power for the AC was routed through the power to the stove. He changed the route but I don't know if he moved the magnets to indicate.

I know there are at least 2 outlets on the east wall of the kitchen (above countertops). One is a GFCI and has the switch for the hardwired garbage disposal. There is at least one outlet on the south wall adjacent to the gfci- also above counter. There is a wall switch on that wall and then the counter with the microwave has 2 outlets (one coming from the pantry). The pantry has an outlet. There is a small light box in an upper cabinet above the sink for a hard-wired undercabinet light. The south wall of the kitchen has outlets for fridge & freezer, light switch for east kitchen lights, and I think the porch light (but it doesn't work). The light in the hallway south of the kitchen does not work. I need to map out some of these outlets but many are not visible due to furniture. Hallway has no outlets. My bedroom only has 2 outlets.

My notations with light locations


So, can anyone make sense of this?

 

[JoeD]

Looks like a normal wiring plan to me.
Is there a specific question you have?

 

[Guzzle]

With dozens of sockets & outlets and dozens of circuit breakers, even with a tracer updating this documentation will be very frustrating.
You may be looking for only three or four omitted or extra connections among many, many combinations.

I'd trace them down on a case by case basis as problems pop up.

I have drawings like that but I also sketched wiring inside boxes when I open them to make modifications. For ceiling boxes I show N S E W directions.

Doing a survey with an ohmmeter & all breakers off may reduce the size of the task.

 

[zannej]

It took me awhile to figure out L meant light and the double lines meant outlet (wasn't until I zoomed in that I could even see that it was an L). I still have trouble making out some of the stuff bc my vision sucks. I think the number of lines is throwing my brain for a loop. I also need to fill in the blanks and figure out where the extra outlets are connected.

 

[Guzzle]

He followed the recommended symbols for house wiring layouts.

"Configuration control is. . .to ensure that all changes to a complex system are performed with the knowledge and consent of management."
and this house is "under new management", I guess.

I spent my whole life telling electrons where to go and still maybe one time out of five they don't listen to me.

If you get to a point where "this can't possibly be happening", it means you are assuming something that is false and you are not aware of the assumption.

You then have to question things you believed in your whole life. It's unpleasant.

 

[zannej]

I'll be happy if I can figure out which breaker goes to which outlet and determine if I can add or move outlets. I want to add a vanity light in my bathroom and I want to add a gfci outlet in what will be the new guest bathroom.

My brain isn't working right now though. Feeling exhausted.

 

[Eddie_T]

That's an easy one to sort out. Choose a bathroom outlet, plug meter leads into it then flip breakers one at a time until you lose power on that outlet. Then check to see which other outlets or lights went off. One of those that went off should be at the end of the run. Then you will know where to pick up the circuit and which breaker controls it.

 

[Guzzle]

Or turn on all the lights at night & have a helper tell you what went off when each breaker is switched off, but sometimes a single thing is fed by two breakers.

 

[Eddie_T]

I don't know if it's conceptual thinking or something else but when I am driving I see the roadmap in my mind and occasionally refer to a paper map to check my progress. I don't do well with line-by-line directions.

LIkewise with electrical work and during a power outage I see the connection circuit for my emergency male-to-male jumper cord through the entire circuit to the panel in my mind so I don't forget to do this or that.

For determining household circuits I am looking to complete the picture in my mind and may document it with a sketch as I progress. People that can't think this way may have trouble with electrical circuits, and the why thereof.

 

[zannej]

I've always had problems reading maps. LOL. Yeah, flipping breakers off may be something we have to try. Part of the problem is that so many of the lights no longer work. Ceiling fan in the living room has dim flickering lights. Light on ceiling fan in the front room just straight up fell off (the little part that holds the bulb that was connected by wires dropped off bc the wires broke somehow). Both of those still have fan power but my brother's ceiling fan and my ceiling fan won't work at all. I would not be surprised if mice chewed wires in the attic.

Kitchen has a few of those outlet expanders with something like 9 ports screwed in to the regular outlets (old country blue ones from the 80s) and some of the ports don't work. I know the cable for the power outlet to the microwave has a screw through it. There is a hanging cabinet I want to take down bc I keep hitting my head on it but I will have to turn power off and make sure there is no power going to it at all in order to remove it. I have come close to taking a sledgehammer to that little cabinet. It was put in a terrible spot (but that's where Mom wanted it). I'll have to see how many outlets are behind fridge/freezer and mark all of the outlets I can find and whether or not they work. One of the outlets in the living room shows it is live but if I plug something in to the top outlet it dies and there is no power. I've tried with both top and bottom ports.

I'm no longer familiar with all of the troubleshooting tools. I have the 3 prong plug with lights on it that lights up different colors based on what is wrong (or right) with the outlet. I ultimately plan to replace all of the outlets and all of the switches because they are old enough that I'm pretty sure some are burned out/failing.

 

[Eddie_T]

You need to assign some priority to your electrical situation. We don't want to read of your house burning down.

 

[zannej]

Yeah, I need to get a taller ladder to get in to the attic and take a look. Gonna have to talk to my friend about running whatever tests we can on the outlets we can get to. There are two points of entry in to the attic. Neither have ladders. They are pieces of painted plywood that get pushed out of the way. No one has been in the attic in probably a decade. I'm not even sure if it's possible to get to the attic over the front room because it was built at a later point, has a lower ceiling, etc. I'll have to see if it is blocked off.

 

[zannej]

So I labeled the breaker box based on the notes and what I observed.

I'm pretty sure that 34 & 36 is for the outside AC unit because there was still power in that 220v line under the house until I turned that one off. But, it could also be the one marked as Heater (33 & 35). To be safe, I flip off all 3 switches when wanting to turn off the AC.

I don't know if the range/oven thing is marked properly but I can test that out by turning it off.

The kitchen lights one included "fan" in his notation. Now, I don't know if that meant the vent fan or the ceiling fan. There are two ceiling fans. One is controlled by a switch on the pantry (directly next to the switch for the pantry light). The other ceiling fan is controlled by a switch behind the refrigerator.

I think "den" refers to the front room as it mentions lights near the front door and on the porch. But it could also be the living room. (Yeah, I know I can find out by flipping the breaker).

Still not sure what the R means on RN and RS. I'm guessing S and N are south and north. Too bad the yellow note is so faded I can't read it. I really wish I'd asked him about this stuff when he was alive.

 

[Guzzle]

With all those breakers this place must be a mansion.

 

[zannej]

I really don't know why there are so many breakers because we don't have a whole lot of outlets or lights. One light in each room (except the front room- which has 2 main room lights and 2 or 3 lights in the closet).
I think the front room has maybe 3 or 4 outlets. It's the later addition to the house so it was designed a little better than the rest of the house.

I want to add an outlet below the light switch in the hallway with the water heater. I'm wondering if it should be GFCI in case he water heater ever leaks. It won't be directly under it, but it will be within 3ft of it. I'd also love to upgrade to a better thermostat. The one I have is hard to read without getting at the right angle and light level. I sort of want one I can check on with my phone or an app or something so I can see what the temps are without having to go look at it.

I'm starting to debate whether or not I should remove the old vent/light/heat that is from the old bathroom. I wanted to put a ceiling fan there, but I'm wondering if I should keep it if it still works to remove moisture from when the washing machine runs. If the blades on my ceiling fan are short enough, I might be able to put it where the current hall light is instead. Worst case, I could always move it over.

I wonder if all of the breakers are even in use... Looks like they all have wires so I'll have to figure out where they go.

 

[zannej]

I mapped out what I know of the electrical for the kitchen. Didn't draw in the range power since it's hardwired. There are two light switches just outside the pantry but I only marked one switch. There's a duplex outlet inside the pantry as well as on the opposite side of the wall above the counter.
Switch for the garbage disposal and the gfci outlet are in a 2-gang box.

 

[Eddie_T]

Have you made any attempt to map outlets and lights to breakers yet? If the panel is close enough you can map outlets using a loud radio. If needed you can add a long extension cord (or several cords) to bring the radio closer to the panel. Then just flip breakers until the radio goes off. Then using the radio or a lamp find out which other outlets went offline with that breaker.

If you don't have a VOM you need to purchase one and learn the basics in using it. Finding the problem with outlets that don't work requires caution as they may have a hot wire in the box and you don't know which breaker to turn off.

A friend that understands electricity can be helpful while a friend that thinks he understands electricity can be a hazard. I can think of a number of ways to use a meter and an extension cord to check outlets in a room but I can't express it well enough in words to walk you through it. On these forums I note that it is hard to get homeowners to follow simple logical instructions or to provide a follow-up post when a problem is solved.

 

[Guzzle]

"A friend that understands electricity can be helpful while a friend that thinks he understands electricity can be a hazard."

I like that!

Ms. J. sre you doing this for the next owner?
'Cause there's some risk you will screw up something that works & some risk to yourself.
I have had enough globs of molten copper flying thru the air to know.

 

[Eddie_T]

I have a nice VOM that's kept in its box but for convenience I more often use a cheap one that is easy to grab or a neon tester. The Harbor Freight $6.99 meter should serve most homeowners well but I prefer my analog meters.

 

[zannej]

I haven't mapped it out yet. I need to get rid of some boxes & junk to be able to access the outlets. Front room is a sort of storage room right now.

I'm doing this more for myself than any future owners.

I like the radio idea. Don't think I have a working one lying around anywhere though. But I can think of something.