House was built in 1950, but I'm pretty sure that this breaker might be 70's or 80's. I'm not sure what the stuff is on the breaker box. I assume that someone may have spilled something on the cover or it was maybe something to do with old paint. There is no known moisture issue in the kitchen, so I have no reason to believe it is related to that.
I'm trying to improve the house and fix some long-existing issues that nobody could figure out a solution to. Around 1979 when my parents bought the house, the FHA made previous owners move the natural gas water heater (in the kitchen) to the crawlspace basement. They dug out a large hole, built a retaining wall, moved the water heater down there and put a sump pump at the other end. Over the years, a furnace system was installed in between the water heater and pump. When it rains, water from the ground seeps in through the wall at the rate of many tens of gallons of water per minute during the heaviest rains and runs across the floor of the hole openly. So, this is a pretty moist environment. The crawlspace itself is not moist. Just the area below ground level. After months and months of figuring out the best solutions for the hole, we've got the solutions for that covered for dealing with the water. Now I need power down there for pumps that I will be putting in.
I'm told that there used to be an outlet down there that the original single pedestal sump pump went to. The little pump that they kept putting in couldn't keep up. Nobody upgraded it, so every once in a while the hole would flood during a crazy big rain and overtop the pump. This apparently tripped the breaker. At some point, the outlet stopped working. I don't see an outlet down there anymore. Just a "loose" random black wire over the hole a few feet from where the sump pumps are. I'm assuming this wire used to go to it. I haven't tested it, but someone may have cut the power to it by detaching the wire or something. I assume that the moist environment down there killed the plug after x or xx years. After that, my parents ran a dropcord out of the bedroom window down through the crawlspace basement door below. Obviously, not a good idea. I'm trying to get rid of that and get a proper outlet down there.
Currently, there's no reason for me to assume that the basement doesn't have its own circuit, as the only electricity down there would have been the mysterious outlet that someone took out, and it is perhaps that old black looking wire just randomly hanging over the middle of the hole inside where the water flows. There is a single light socket down there that the HVAC people installed when they put the first central heat/air system in, during the 90's. Not sure what that light socket is tied into. I see a wire running to it from the furnace/blower assembly side, so I'm not sure if they branched that off from the 30A circuit that the system is on or if they ran it from the circuit labeled "basement" specifically. Either way...I need an outlet for that basement circuit. It is my understanding that the pumps and this light socket can't be on the same circuit, if both are tied into the same circuit. Is this true?
Since the FHA made the former owners (before they could sell the house to my parents) dig out a spot to put that water heater in the crawlspace, I'm sure they had to have it inspected by someone after the work was done. Wouldn't this have required a separate circuit for the basement, even if it was in '78 or '79? I know that something may need to be done to convert the breaker to GFCI, and of course run a new wire and proper outlet box in the basement and that's fine.
I just want to check the feasibility of this with this older breaker box. Can the circuit itself be upgraded without changing out the breaker box?
Depending on the type of pumps, the new pumps would each be between 4.6 run / 12.9 start Amps and 5.8 Run / 20.4 Start Amps. There would be two. I would also have a battery backup system called a Pump Sentry, which keeps one or more marine deep cycle batteries charged until needed. Power goes off, it switches immediately to the battery and (unlike the little 12V horrible systems), it uses some type of inverter box that converts the power in the marine battery to power one or both of the main sump pumps. No smaller backup pump. So I consider the scenario that if power went off during a multi-day rain system and there was high flow, then the power came back on...I'd like to assume that both pumps would be kicking on at the same time just for overkill's sake. I'd also like to assume that in addition to both pumps coming on and off every few minutes (not likely, but I like to be prepared), the system would be recharging the battery that was used during the power outage.
These are the stats of the unit that would be charging:
http://pumpsentry.com/?p=models
The larger model on the left, Model 1622PS, is what I would be using. Kind of curious where I would put such a unit down there, too. I'd want to keep it off from the dirt, even though the crawlspace dirt itself doesn't get wet. Spiders, insects, etc...which I'm trying to rid down there, might get in it. Not sure what code requires for having something like that down in such a basement, while still being close to a plug.
This is apparently a 100Amp breaker box, and the basement circuit appears to be 20A. I don't quite understand all of the aspects of this "starting amp" thing. Obviously, it briefly uses that much power during startup, then immediately kicks down to the running amps. We aren't using anything that big other than a 30A circuit for the electric clothes dryer and the 30A circuit for the heating/air system.
Am I going to have any problems in getting an outlet down there? Are they going to try to sell me on upgrading the whole circuit breaker or something? Pics coming soon.
Also, what the heck is that little square box in the upper right corner of the breaker box? I haven't seen one of those before and was just curious. It is right next to a metal cabinet, and the breaker box is a couple of feet from the back door. A really old back door was there a long time ago and had about 6 thin glass panes in the top of it, which would have put it a foot or two from the breaker. I guess that could have caused the rusty looking spots on the inside of the breaker.
Lots of questions, but I figured it would be better to post it all at once rather than going back and forth for 20 pages. I really need to go through those and figure out what goes to what and label it more. I just don't want to mess with them and be flipping them off and on too much.
The box apparently buzzes (not sure what the source is) when the electric clothes dryer is on while the a/c is on. It appears that this dryer has its own circuit and is labeled, and it has a proper plug. I presume that the blank 30A circuit at the top right is the a/c. That's the only thing they could have connected it to since there are no other 30A circuits in the box that I see. The box doesn't buzz when the dryer itself is on alone or when the a/c itself is on alone. Could it just be a bad circuit for the dryer or a/c that needs to be replaced? There must not be any danger, as that has apparently been happening for xx years since the first central system was put in, in the 90's. :hide: I can't imagine that it would have been possible at all for both of them to be wired to the same 30A circuit. Nothing else uses 30A in the house. What the heck could be causing that?
I didn't add them directly to the page here because of their larger resolution and it makes it harder to see them if I reduce it. Photos of the breaker:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/1gj2ir.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/19tsar.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/2zfmsqq.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2a8izbq.jpg
I'm trying to improve the house and fix some long-existing issues that nobody could figure out a solution to. Around 1979 when my parents bought the house, the FHA made previous owners move the natural gas water heater (in the kitchen) to the crawlspace basement. They dug out a large hole, built a retaining wall, moved the water heater down there and put a sump pump at the other end. Over the years, a furnace system was installed in between the water heater and pump. When it rains, water from the ground seeps in through the wall at the rate of many tens of gallons of water per minute during the heaviest rains and runs across the floor of the hole openly. So, this is a pretty moist environment. The crawlspace itself is not moist. Just the area below ground level. After months and months of figuring out the best solutions for the hole, we've got the solutions for that covered for dealing with the water. Now I need power down there for pumps that I will be putting in.
I'm told that there used to be an outlet down there that the original single pedestal sump pump went to. The little pump that they kept putting in couldn't keep up. Nobody upgraded it, so every once in a while the hole would flood during a crazy big rain and overtop the pump. This apparently tripped the breaker. At some point, the outlet stopped working. I don't see an outlet down there anymore. Just a "loose" random black wire over the hole a few feet from where the sump pumps are. I'm assuming this wire used to go to it. I haven't tested it, but someone may have cut the power to it by detaching the wire or something. I assume that the moist environment down there killed the plug after x or xx years. After that, my parents ran a dropcord out of the bedroom window down through the crawlspace basement door below. Obviously, not a good idea. I'm trying to get rid of that and get a proper outlet down there.
Currently, there's no reason for me to assume that the basement doesn't have its own circuit, as the only electricity down there would have been the mysterious outlet that someone took out, and it is perhaps that old black looking wire just randomly hanging over the middle of the hole inside where the water flows. There is a single light socket down there that the HVAC people installed when they put the first central heat/air system in, during the 90's. Not sure what that light socket is tied into. I see a wire running to it from the furnace/blower assembly side, so I'm not sure if they branched that off from the 30A circuit that the system is on or if they ran it from the circuit labeled "basement" specifically. Either way...I need an outlet for that basement circuit. It is my understanding that the pumps and this light socket can't be on the same circuit, if both are tied into the same circuit. Is this true?
Since the FHA made the former owners (before they could sell the house to my parents) dig out a spot to put that water heater in the crawlspace, I'm sure they had to have it inspected by someone after the work was done. Wouldn't this have required a separate circuit for the basement, even if it was in '78 or '79? I know that something may need to be done to convert the breaker to GFCI, and of course run a new wire and proper outlet box in the basement and that's fine.
I just want to check the feasibility of this with this older breaker box. Can the circuit itself be upgraded without changing out the breaker box?
Depending on the type of pumps, the new pumps would each be between 4.6 run / 12.9 start Amps and 5.8 Run / 20.4 Start Amps. There would be two. I would also have a battery backup system called a Pump Sentry, which keeps one or more marine deep cycle batteries charged until needed. Power goes off, it switches immediately to the battery and (unlike the little 12V horrible systems), it uses some type of inverter box that converts the power in the marine battery to power one or both of the main sump pumps. No smaller backup pump. So I consider the scenario that if power went off during a multi-day rain system and there was high flow, then the power came back on...I'd like to assume that both pumps would be kicking on at the same time just for overkill's sake. I'd also like to assume that in addition to both pumps coming on and off every few minutes (not likely, but I like to be prepared), the system would be recharging the battery that was used during the power outage.
These are the stats of the unit that would be charging:
http://pumpsentry.com/?p=models
The larger model on the left, Model 1622PS, is what I would be using. Kind of curious where I would put such a unit down there, too. I'd want to keep it off from the dirt, even though the crawlspace dirt itself doesn't get wet. Spiders, insects, etc...which I'm trying to rid down there, might get in it. Not sure what code requires for having something like that down in such a basement, while still being close to a plug.
This is apparently a 100Amp breaker box, and the basement circuit appears to be 20A. I don't quite understand all of the aspects of this "starting amp" thing. Obviously, it briefly uses that much power during startup, then immediately kicks down to the running amps. We aren't using anything that big other than a 30A circuit for the electric clothes dryer and the 30A circuit for the heating/air system.
Am I going to have any problems in getting an outlet down there? Are they going to try to sell me on upgrading the whole circuit breaker or something? Pics coming soon.
Also, what the heck is that little square box in the upper right corner of the breaker box? I haven't seen one of those before and was just curious. It is right next to a metal cabinet, and the breaker box is a couple of feet from the back door. A really old back door was there a long time ago and had about 6 thin glass panes in the top of it, which would have put it a foot or two from the breaker. I guess that could have caused the rusty looking spots on the inside of the breaker.
Lots of questions, but I figured it would be better to post it all at once rather than going back and forth for 20 pages. I really need to go through those and figure out what goes to what and label it more. I just don't want to mess with them and be flipping them off and on too much.
The box apparently buzzes (not sure what the source is) when the electric clothes dryer is on while the a/c is on. It appears that this dryer has its own circuit and is labeled, and it has a proper plug. I presume that the blank 30A circuit at the top right is the a/c. That's the only thing they could have connected it to since there are no other 30A circuits in the box that I see. The box doesn't buzz when the dryer itself is on alone or when the a/c itself is on alone. Could it just be a bad circuit for the dryer or a/c that needs to be replaced? There must not be any danger, as that has apparently been happening for xx years since the first central system was put in, in the 90's. :hide: I can't imagine that it would have been possible at all for both of them to be wired to the same 30A circuit. Nothing else uses 30A in the house. What the heck could be causing that?
I didn't add them directly to the page here because of their larger resolution and it makes it harder to see them if I reduce it. Photos of the breaker:
http://oi68.tinypic.com/1gj2ir.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/19tsar.jpg
http://oi64.tinypic.com/2zfmsqq.jpg
http://oi66.tinypic.com/2a8izbq.jpg
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