Can I use a cement base for crawlspace door?

Discussion in 'Bricks, Masonry and Concrete' started by jmr106, May 1, 2016.

Help Support House Repair Talk by donating:

  1. May 10, 2016 #21

    jmr106

    jmr106

    jmr106

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    54
    So don't dig down to the foundation rock?
     
  2. May 10, 2016 #22

    nealtw

    nealtw

    nealtw

    Contractor retired

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    24,676
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    Location:
    Chiliwack BC Canada
    Yeah, if you just dug a trench down 6 inches and formed up 4" above ground
     
  3. May 10, 2016 #23

    nealtw

    nealtw

    nealtw

    Contractor retired

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    24,676
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    Location:
    Chiliwack BC Canada
    So if you put a curb there you could do some brick work on both sides, then you would have a surface to put the door frame against.

    01.jpg
     
  4. May 11, 2016 #24

    slownsteady

    slownsteady

    slownsteady

    Administrator Staff Member Admin Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2009
    Messages:
    6,875
    Likes Received:
    1,286
    Location:
    Sussex County, NJ
    Neal: frost isn't the concern here. It is seepage through the dirt and into the crawlspace. One thing that we haven't determined is how much water is moving through the soil or sitting under the house. it seems you would have to "perk" the crawlspace.
    As far as installing any door, wouldn't JMR have to build a frame to rough in the door? Then he could seal the spots between the rocks and the frame with mortar or some synthetic filler.
     
  5. May 11, 2016 #25

    nealtw

    nealtw

    nealtw

    Contractor retired

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    24,676
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    Location:
    Chiliwack BC Canada
    If you are putting a curb under a door frost is an issue, we won't stop the seepage.
    He has a concrete runway from the door to the dig out, if he puts in concrete and sump sealed he just wants stop the surface water from running in the door down the runway onto the new concrete and causing a whole new problem.
    He is looking at a metal door with a metal frame flange all the way around. So I was thinking the cub first then with mortar stack bricks on edge on both sides with a 2x4 across the top and then he would have a constant surface for the door frame, the mortar closes the gaps, any seepage would be below the runway and would find it's way to the pump.
    There are tricks to make the joint between the cub and the rock water proof.
     
  6. May 12, 2016 #26

    jmr106

    jmr106

    jmr106

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    54
    I probably should talk about this in electrical to stay on topic, but how simple would this be? I'm not sure if there are any more "open" circuits to dedicate. I know that it is 100 amps total. Maybe 70's or 80's breakers. Half aren't labeled properly and the ones that are...they are tied to multiple rooms and things. For instance, one time I was going to put in a basic ceiling fan in the dining room in place of an old chandelier fixture. I discovered that the dining room light fixture went to the light switch (of course) in the dining room, then up the wall into the attic where it tied into a Junction box. That particular circuit apparently leads to the living room outlet for the tv, along with the outside porch lights in front of the living room. When I was doing that project, I asked an electrician at Home Depot (saw his uniform and company name) and he said they called that "chicken wire" as a slang name and that you just figure it out by trial and error. Anyway, when I turned the light switch on after the fan was put in, the motor would barely turn and the lights flashed off and on. Puzzled, I checked the voltage using a volt meter in the living room wall socket for the tv. The voltage was rapidly going up and down. Apparently that was a full circuit and the fan motor pulled too many amps. I took it down and put in a basic light fixture with 2 bulbs and no problems at all.

    So that was my concern with branching off from any existing circuit for an outlet for the pumps. I think all of the circuits might be in use, not sure. I'm not sure how many things the circuit for the old pump outlet (no longer there, but when it existed) has on it. It was in the basement and there is just an old loose wire there now. My mother told me long years ago when I was a kid that the pump got over topped with water and tripped the breaker. I'm assuming the water caused that, as the running amps on that single pump were like 4A. New pumps would be 10 running amps max, even if both were on. Otherwise, one is just below 5 running amps. Could they trace the old wire to the breaker and just run a new one? There is no more space for another breaker to be added, from what I see, but the old one must be there. I have noted that the breaker box "buzzes" from time to time, only when the electric clothes dryer and air conditioner are on at the same time. I can't confirm that they are tied to the same breaker and it may just be the 30A dryer breaker going bad. I can't see two 30A machines even working at all on a 30A single circuit, so that probably doesn't make sense anyway. I see that dryer plug wire literally running along the dirt crawlspace floor before going up through the floor and into the proper outlet for the dryer, on the side of the kitchen. This place is full of surprises.:rofl: That probably isn't code, either.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  7. May 12, 2016 #27

    KULTULZ

    KULTULZ

    KULTULZ

    JACK of All Trades ~ MASTER of NONE

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    361
    Likes Received:
    84
    ...whew...
     
  8. May 12, 2016 #28

    KULTULZ

    KULTULZ

    KULTULZ

    JACK of All Trades ~ MASTER of NONE

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2015
    Messages:
    361
    Likes Received:
    84
    Hit the wrong damn button... :mad:

    Let me start as saying I am not a professional and the following is IMO.

    You've experienced why certain loads must be on dedicated correct ampere circuits, overload.

    The pump(s) should be be on their own GFCI breaker (AFCI) is also now required if re-wire or remodel)(and with proper circuit load calculation). You want the GFCI @ the breaker box as you don't want to mix live electricity with water. On a circuit such as this, you do not want anything else possibly tripping the breaker, such as a lamp and outlet circuit.

    If the house only has 100A service (common years ago), you need to map your circuits and then do a load calculation on those circuits to find any possible overload(s). If you find you have more load on a circuit that what is was wired for, you would split the circuit back to the box with it's own dedicated breaker. If you have no more spaces in your breaker box, you could add a sub-panel or bite the bullet and go for a power-up (200A).

    The extra 20A service would give you the convenience of having light and a circuit heavy enough for any power tool that might be needed down there for any repair.

    Now this was brief but any question please ask and hopefully a licensed electrician will help out.

    :rofl: CHICKEN WIRE :rofl:

    This is the first time I heard that and is most appropriate.

    Reminds me of when I was young working in a service station. I was being taught on the skills of mower servicing. The mechanic said, first you have to establish spark. Hold this (plug cable) while I pull the cord.

    Yeah, she has spark... :eek:
     
  9. May 14, 2016 #29

    jmr106

    jmr106

    jmr106

    Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 26, 2015
    Messages:
    321
    Likes Received:
    54

    I do that sometimes...I write a lot of stuff and it goes poof. :mad:

    I took a peek at the breaker and took some pics. The basement does have a specific circuit labeled "basement". It looks to be 20amp, as well. That's the only thing that would have been down there, and it is possible that the HVAC people may have tied that light switch into that. Hard to tell. I know that they obviously ran a wire or wires from the breaker when installing the furnace and outside a/c unit, so I'm sure they would have known what the code required for the light socket (hopefully). I'm going to ask in electrical and post some pics and such to keep from going all over the place. This house has so many issues that I wish there was a "random" single category for everything. :rofl: Mainly because every project seems to encounter an issue with something in a totally different category, yet directly related.

    I could try to do some kind of brickwork for the curb, but I don't have much confidence in my abilities in that area. Actually, I'm not very good at cement probably, but I'll try my best to build a wood form for the curb. I'm going to try to dig down a considerable amount and see what is below that area, then build the base up from there and extend about 3 to 4 inches above ground. The door would be pre-ordered and already on-hand before I do anything, and installed after the cement dried. I've measured 31 1/4 high by 35 1/4" as the actual installation size. So it would end up at 28 1/4" by 35 1/4" if I build a 3 inch curb. I don't think I'll go over 3 inches...haven't seen water get up that high even in minor flash flood events when other parts of the yard had inches of water.

    I measured the width by using the parts that stick out the farthest on each side, so that I don't have any fit issues. There are just too many variables one each side and I couldn't see any other way apart from trying to cut it flat. Apparently the door frame itself won't be anywhere near as deep as the wooden one (which is probably at least 6" deep). The new one looks like maybe a 3" or so frame (depth-wise into the doorway), so it would essentially be on the outer part of the foundation and not go anywhere near as far back as the wood frame does.

    I'm just going to mortar around it when all is done. Due to the jagged appearance of the foundation rocks, some stick our farther than others. I had to go with the most outer pointing rocks for the door measurements. Granted, when the door is installed, this will mean that the actual frame won't be completely flush with the foundation on each side. So when the screws are put in to secure the door, there will be gaps between the frame and the foundations. But, as long as the door is secure and screws are in tightly, shouldn't any issues. Right?

    Oh, and your last comment about that lawn mower and the spark...I actually did that one day. The mower was sort of revving up and down as if maybe the spark plug wire was jiggling or not on the spark plug tightly. I was tired and not even thinking. I reached down with the mower running and touched the wire itself (not the actual connection to the spark plug). I figured the wire would be insulated, and it appeared to be...but I felt that zap of tingly electricity all the way up to my shoulder. I won first prize for stupidity that day. :trophy:
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2016
  10. May 16, 2016 #30

    nealtw

    nealtw

    nealtw

    Contractor retired

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2010
    Messages:
    24,676
    Likes Received:
    3,347
    Location:
    Chiliwack BC Canada
     

Share This Page