Help with Outside Garage Lighting

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markfothebeast said:
1. Turn off breaker to Light Circuit. Or suspect breaker circuit(s).

2. Confirm there is no power to switch terminals. Disconnect switch. Confirm there is no power to suspect pair of wires to exterior lights.

3. Remove exterior light(s) to access wires. Confirm there is no power to actual wiring at the light(s).

4. With suspect wiring disconnected between both the switch and light(s) with no live current, wrap the black and white wires together at the light fixture. Set your DMM to continuity or OHMs. Probe the suspect black and white wires in the switch box. If you have a reading of .06 to .08 ohms you have continuity (or you hear an audible beep). If there's a red wire in the light fixture, also test this method with the red wire.
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That's nice. You know what, when the light doesn't come on with the switch.
There is one thing we know for sure there is no continuity.

We also know that if these lights work they are against code.
So the question will be, what to do to make it code but first you have to know what has been done. We can not cover all the what ifs in one paragraph especially with the experience of the OP.
So let's take it step by step.
 
We also know that if these lights work they are against code.
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Not if the power source for the lights is in the garage. I believe you are permitted to run a switch leg back to the house for garage lights and it does not count as a second feed to the garage.
 
JoeD said:
Not if the power source for the lights is in the garage. I believe you are permitted to run a switch leg back to the house for garage lights and it does not count as a second feed to the garage.
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And that might be what the red wire was for, the power in the box turns off with a breaker in the house.

I am thinking there was lights with sensors and the previous owners took them.
And the switch was left there just to fill the hole in the plate.
I just wish people would leave a note by the breaker box when they leave something that could be a mystery for the next guy.
Like why the red wire is there and why it was cut short.

It should have had a nut on it so a homeowner likely did it, and that makes it open to lot's off possibilities.
 
Too many assumptions being made in this thread.
Do we know for a fact that:
1.there is only one hot line in the switch box?
2.that power can be sent to the lights regardless of the condition of any switches (continuity)?
3. that the red wire carries current under any condition (other end connected to something)?

These things can be confirmed easily enough with a piece of spare wire, a couple of wire nuts and a dummy light.
 
slownsteady said:
Too many assumptions being made in this thread.
Do we know for a fact that:
1.there is only one hot line in the switch box?
2.that power can be sent to the lights regardless of the condition of any switches (continuity)?
3. that the red wire carries current under any condition (other end connected to something)?

These things can be confirmed easily enough with a piece of spare wire, a couple of wire nuts and a dummy light.
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Those are all good questions and the answers will come, the OP has limited time after work and before dark and has limited knowledge of this stuff.

So patients is required.
 
Hi just checked the outside garage lights, both of them to see if there is a red wire. No sign of any red wire.

Also decided to check the two light switches inside the garage. No sign of any red wire.

Then I remembered out of all the receptacles in the garage there was one that didn't work. So I decided to check that out as well. It had two wires connected to top and bottom of that receptacle but it still didn't work. And I didn't see any Red wires in either of the two wires.
 
Afrowookie said:
Hi just checked the outside garage lights, both of them to see if there is a red wire. No sign of any red wire.

Also decided to check the two light switches inside the garage. No sign of any red wire.

Then I remembered out of all the receptacles in the garage there was one that didn't work. So I decided to check that out as well. It had two wires connected to top and bottom of that receptacle but it still didn't work. And I didn't see any Red wires in either of the two wires.
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Is the garage finished inside.
Did you check the lights for power with the switch turned .
 
To answer your question about the conduits thought to be water lines. Here are some pics.

img_20170127_153356-1591.jpg


img_20170127_153326-1590.jpg
 
Yes the garage is completely finished. Wired, Insulated and with chip board up covering up everything.

Yes checked the lights if there was power there, and No, there was no power at all.
 
Afrowookie said:
Yes the garage is completely finished. Wired, Insulated and with chip board up covering up everything.

Yes checked the lights if there was power there, and No, there was no power at all.
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Don't forget you need to check for power under each individual condition switch on, switch off, alt switch on / off, and any combination of switches being on and off. That's why I suggested bypassing any switches and just checking directly.
 
Wow after looking at the condition and installation of those conduit "ELs" (pictures) I dread to even think of how this was wired? Definitely a DIY job; if electrician should have his licensed pulled.

My house did not have ONE device box in it when I first moved in. The guy before me decided to save money on "important" things. All switches and receptacles don't have a device box, just a hole in the wall. Yes!! believe it.

Sorry, back to issue at hand. Something does not seem right here.
 
afjes_2016 said:
Wow after looking at the condition and installation of those conduit "ELs" (pictures) I dread to even think of how this was wired? Definitely a DIY job; if electrician should have his licensed pulled.

My house did not have ONE device box in it when I first moved in. The guy before me decided to save money on "important" things. All switches and receptacles don't have a device box, just a hole in the wall. Yes!! believe it.

Sorry, back to issue at hand. Something does not seem right here.
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Post 89, ground wires back to the house???
 
The pic shown, was the left light it had two cables. The right light one only had one cable to it.

If you see post 58 with the pic of the garage conduits. To me there appears to be 3 conduits and looks professionally done except for the one in question, which unlike the other two bigger ones have no box on it. So it looks like it was done later. That's just my guess.
 
I think you need to rent or buy one of these tone and probe.
Then you could trace where the red wire goes, the light wires go and the wires in the dead outlet go.
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apIpHPgkevQ[/ame]
 
Afrowookie: the lights are daisy chained. First light two cables, the next, just one cable. Did you take the first fixture off and test with a meter to see if any power at all? If they are daisy chained then if first fixture has no power then the second won't for sure.

Back to red wire. If it was cut short and tucked back in the box more than likely it had nothing to do with this "set up". Maybe just extra ?/3 the guy had laying around and used that instead of ?/2.

The garage being finished does not help either.
Afrowookie is there attic access above the garage? Maybe a junction box up there. Is there an attic space above the garage?

Again are you sure you checked the entire house for GFCI receptacles? Every single one? Even one hidden behind something in the garage, in the basement, outside along the side of the house, in a bathroom? Everywhere!!? I have found GFCIs in areas that customers did not even know they had them after living in the house for years.

Also remember if you find a GFCI that won't reset it is because there is no power to it (or the GFCI is faulty). I have had customers that could not reset a GFCI because there was no power but because it was controlled by a light switch. If the light switch if off when it tripped and when you try to reset it then it won't reset because the switch is not allowing power to get to the GFCI.
 
afjes_2016 said:
Afrowookie: the lights are daisy chained. First light two cables, the next, just one cable. Did you take the first fixture off and test with a meter to see if any power at all? If they are daisy chained then if first fixture has no power then the second won't for sure.

Back to red wire. If it was cut short and tucked back in the box more than likely it had nothing to do with this "set up". Maybe just extra ?/3 the guy had laying around and used that instead of ?/2.

The garage being finished does not help either.
Afrowookie is there attic access above the garage? Maybe a junction box up there. Is there an attic space above the garage?

Again are you sure you checked the entire house for GFCI receptacles? Every single one? Even one hidden behind something in the garage, in the basement, outside along the side of the house, in a bathroom? Everywhere!!? I have found GFCIs in areas that customers did not even know they had them after living in the house for years.

Also remember if you find a GFCI that won't reset it is because there is no power to it (or the GFCI is faulty). I have had customers that could not reset a GFCI because there was no power but because it was controlled by a light switch. If the light switch if off when it tripped and when you try to reset it then it won't reset because the switch is not allowing power to get to the GFCI.
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We were using the red just for identification of the same cable. AS it hasn't showed up in the garage that cable could be going anywhere.
 
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