How do I connect sink tail piece to drain pipe?

[tomtheelder2020]

I really do not want to remove the existing elbow from the drain pipe. It is original to my 72 year old house and I don't want to risk having to get into the wall if something breaks. The tail piece from the drain in the new sink is in a different location than the old one. the bottom of the tail piece is about 2-3/4 inch above the bottom of the drain pipe elbow. The center of the elbow is about 5-1/2 inches from the center of the tail piece. That means the J-trap is about 2 inches short of spanning the distance.The obvious solution is one of those corrugated pipe sections but they seem like an invitation to a clog. Looking at the HD web site I don't see plumbing parts that look like a solution. What do you recommend?

 

[Snoonyb]

Were it I, I would simply remove the existing P trap, at the wall, and install the appropriate one on these; chrome adjustable P traps

Your new sink tailpiece is amendable, or can be lengthened, as well, with another fitting.

 

[tomtheelder2020]

Were it I, I would simply remove the existing P trap, at the wall, and install the appropriate one on these; chrome adjustable P traps.

Snoonby, thanks for the reply. If you look at my first photo, the problem is that elbow at the drain pipe which the trap is attached to in the second photo. I am worried that 70+ years of rust, corrosion, etc. could cause problems if I remove the elbow. So the question is, how do I make this connection without removing that elbow?

 

[Snoonyb]

I understand your concerns but I'd still do what I suggested, because the nut at the drain connection may actually break, with little effort, and removing the drop down will improve the sink drainage. But frankly, other than the flexible drain extension, which are blockage inducer.

OR, you could drop the P trap even lower, further enhancing the slow drain and add a couple of these and a short tailpiece between; 1PNU2 1-1/2" or 1-1/4" " Dia., Brass, Chrome/Brass Finish, Elbow | Zoro.com

Or, there are preformed 45's that could be amended to fit.

 

[tomtheelder2020]

Here is the solution I came up with. I didn't want the deep trap that would have resulted from using the J trap shown in the 2nd of my original photos. Instead, I used two elbows, an extension tube, and an extender on the tail piece to turn everything under the sink into one big trap. it is about 8 inches wide - but it works.

 

[Snoonyb]

Why don't you post this in the plumbing forum, and update here, the responses.

Were it I, I would have installed a "T" between the elbows and a connection for a clear sediment jar, because the sediment trap you've created, will eventually begin to stink.

 

[tomtheelder2020]

Why don't you post this in the plumbing forum, and update here, the responses.

Were it I, I would have installed a "T" between the elbows and a connection for a clear sediment jar, because the sediment trap you've created, will eventually begin to stink.

Snoonyb, my computer shows I did post in the plumbing forum - is that not where you see it?

I had never heard of a sediment jar but I presume something like the one below is what you have in mind. When it becomes necessary to clean the trap, I can simply replace an elbow with one of these. Thanks for the idea.

Amazon.com

 

[slownsteady]

I don't think the homemade trap will do very well. Like Snoonyb mentioned, there's plenty of room for sediment to build in there. The trap is meant to hold just enough water to block odors from traveling up the pipe. Your config would have to hold a lot of water to do that.

Bite the bullet and remove the old elbow. You may want to spray it with a corrosion penetrating formula first. It's probably not as old as you think.

 

[tomtheelder2020]

I don't think the homemade trap will do very well. Like Snoonyb mentioned, there's plenty of room for sediment to build in there. The trap is meant to hold just enough water to block odors from traveling up the pipe. Your config would have to hold a lot of water to do that.

My version of a trap will not doubt have trouble sooner than a standard one but replacing one of the elbows with something like the sediment filter I showed should improve it substantially and make it easier to clean.

Bite the bullet and remove the old elbow. You may want to spray it with a corrosion penetrating formula first. It's probably not as old as you think.

I saturated that nut with penetrating oil and tapped on it with a hammer repeatedly over two days - that sucker won't budge.

 

[EricK]

I hear you on not wanting to break the pipe coming out of the wall. That's a tricky one. One thing you may consider is cutting it shorter so that you can raise your p-trap.

 

[Ron Van]

I saw this in a commercial building’s men’s room today.



There’s a huge misunderstanding of plumbing here.

1) the trap arm goes below the trap weir before getting to the vent

2) the AAV only needs to be 4-6 inches above the trap arm (depending on model) and could be under the sink.

This could be fixed easily.

 

[Snoonyb]

An entrepreneur, for sure.

 

[Ron Van]

Anyway... Do we know what kind of fitting that is at the wall? Is that a galvanized trap adaptor coming out of the wall?

Now that you've soaked it with penetrant, Put a big wrench on it and put your weight into it. either the nut will come loose or the whole trap adaptor will come out.

You won't break the Tee in the wall. At least there should be a tee in the wall. Once you get the downward 90 off the wall, you can verify that there is either a vent going up or if the drain goes horizontally, there could be a vent somewhere else, but if the drain goes downward in the wall, there should also be a vent going up. Like this...



This is not acceptable...



The trap you made is not proper and should be fixed right. A trap is designed to promote scouring to clean itself out.

If you find that your drain is not vented properly, it can be fixed as well but now might be the time to investigate.

Don't be afraid to cut out some drywall if you have to. Sheetrock is easy to patch using a "Hot Patch" technique See it Here.

Once you get that nut off (at the wall), you got it made. Just make it look like this...

 

[Snoonyb]

This is a multi-use tool, from, what I would have addressed the nut with; 480 20-inch BigAzz® Straight Jaw Tongue & Groove Pliers - Channellock, Inc.

 

[Ron Van]

This is a multi-use tool, from, what I would have addressed the nut with; 480 20-inch BigAzz® Straight Jaw Tongue & Groove Pliers - Channellock, Inc.

That will work!

 

[tomtheelder2020]

I hear you on not wanting to break the pipe coming out of the wall. That's a tricky one. One thing you may consider is cutting it shorter so that you can raise your p-trap.

Good idea.

 

[tomtheelder2020]

Now that you've soaked it with penetrant, Put a big wrench on it and put your weight into it.

Soaked it a couple times over two days ...

either the nut will come loose or the whole trap adaptor will come out.

... but nothing budged. No doubt in part because the cramped area limited my leverage and the size of tool I could use (I have a 24-inch pipe wrench I have never used. If only I had known this was going to be a problem before ai installed the vanity).

You won't break the Tee in the wall. At least there should be a tee in the wall. Once you get the downward 90 off the wall, you can verify that there is either a vent going up or if the drain goes horizontally, there could be a vent somewhere else, but if the drain goes downward in the wall, there should also be a vent going up. Like this...

I will need to check for future reference but I am pretty sure there is a roof vent at this location.

The trap you made is not proper and should be fixed right. A trap is designed to promote scouring to clean itself out.

I was aware this was a temporary solution. Part of the decision of what to do when itr clogs will be how long it takes before that happens.

Once you get that nut off (at the wall), you got it made. Just make it look like this...

This product will likely be my next try. The manufacturer claims it is self-scouring. Wish I had seen this before I jerry-rigged a solution. If this also fails, or if I just decide to bite the bullet, I will take out a load and hire a plumber.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SIMPLE-...m-Single-Sink-Drain-Kit-3EA-1V2-TC0/313608432

 

[Snoonyb]

Soaked it a couple times over two days ...

... but nothing budged. No doubt in part because the cramped area limited my leverage and the size of tool I could use (I have a 24-inch pipe wrench I have never used. If only I had known this was going to be a problem before ai installed the vanity).

I will need to check for future reference but I am pretty sure there is a roof vent at this location.

I was aware this was a temporary solution. Part of the decision of what to do when itr clogs will be how long it takes before that happens.

This product will likely be my next try. The manufacturer claims it is self-scouring. Wish I had seen this before I jerry-rigged a solution. If this also fails, or if I just decide to bite the bullet, I will take out a load and hire a plumber.

https://www.homedepot.com/p/SIMPLE-...m-Single-Sink-Drain-Kit-3EA-1V2-TC0/313608432

In 45yrs of repairs, the reason that I've never succumbed to cheap-n-dirty solutions, as that one is, is because I warrantied all my work for the duration of that customers occupancy, of that dwelling.

Not in supply, exhaust or drainage, because anything, like ridges, will affect the volumetric flow and cause foreign material, not exhausted, to accumulate.

 

[PJB12]

Personally, I wouldn't spend a second worrying about odor from your very creative solution.

Here's Why:
A) Will self flush debris just as easily as a J-bend, perhaps better.
B) Creates an extra long water seal so it won't self-siphon during negative pressure conditions or if the system vent clogs.
C) Has a very deep weir. It'll handle accidental negative pressure and stop vermin extremely well.

Your solution looks like a low height drum trap. And, you've got it set up for easy removal should you so desire.

Similar "flat bottom" set ups are often used for condensate drains from million-plus BTU./Hr commercial air handlers and for swamp coolers. Any chance of bacteria laden odor is strictly prohibited for these units. (Legionnaire's Disease, etc.)



Regarding the jamb nut on the wall:
Since your house is 75 years young, the pipe in the wall is most likely galvanized iron. (You might be able to sneak a peek around the escutcheon or try a strong magnet.) The jamb nut is probably plated brass.
Since the galvanized is so much stronger than brass, here's an idea for when (if) you feel like going back in:
With eye protection on, use a fine tooth blade from a hacksaw in a holder or a Dremel type rotary cut-off tool to carefully cut part of the way through the jamb nut in at least 2 places, 180 degrees apart. Cutting in 3 places at 120 degrees is even better. The nut will peel off by (gloved) hand.
If it's easier, peel off the escutcheon. Split ones are available if you can't find a solid one to fit.

If you decide not to cut the nut, a Strap Wrench may prove useful.
I prefer the fabric strap type and rub the strap with a block of rosin. I've never had luck with stretchy rubber strap wrenches. (A chain wrench is a bit of a bully and may crush stuff.)




Also, Fernco makes a flexible, rubber p-trap to use with 1-1/4 and 1-1/2" sizes. They don't have corrugations.

But, I still think your trap will be just fine. Paul

 

[PJB12]

I saw this in a commercial building’s men’s room today.

View attachment 31945

There’s a huge misunderstanding of plumbing here.

1) the trap arm goes below the trap weir before getting to the vent

2) the AAV only needs to be 4-6 inches above the trap arm (depending on model) and could be under the sink.

This could be fixed easily.

I like your observations, Ron Van! I'll bet you shook your head when you saw that. There's sure some crazy stuff out there.

I think the installer of the men's room sink you photographed made an S-Trap by mistake. It sure doesn't look like there are 2 pipe diameters of trap arm before the pipe turns down (into what may also be interpreted as part of the venting system).

The horizontal part of the vent (elbow & short length) doesn't look right, either. Isn't a vent supposed to be above the flood rim before it turns horizontally to prevent debris from clogging it?

I think I'd have stood the DWV Tee up- or used a Wye & 1/8th- and taken the BOCA vent out of the top. Or, ideally, the piping would have had a high loop and a foot vent. (Like beauty shop sinks often have.)

I got my journeyman's in the 70's & never worked with fixture drains during the time I worked in the field, so I may be way wrong. Just dusting off cobwebs from the apprenticeship days.

Paul
PS: I like the guy's extra "Oops" coupling.