How to fasten plywood underlayment, where it goes under the toe kick of an existing cabinet?

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gfw

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I'm fastening down a good quality (solid core) plywood underlayment for linoleum. I'm using nails along joists and mostly screws otherwise. I'm probably using more fasteners than strictly necessary, and it feels really solid. But I can't get fasteners closer than about 4.25 inches to the edge of the underlayment when that edge goes under the toe kick of an existing cabinet. Is that a problem? If it is, what's the solution?
 

joecaption

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If your really talking about 1/4" underlayment and not a subfloor it's not an issue.
Also if it's really underlayment your talking about you should be attaching it between the joist, not to the joist!
You also would be far better off and far faster using a narrow crown staple gun, not nails and never screws!
By using nails your now going to have to go back over every single one of them with filler as well as the seams to fill in the low spots.
A narrow crown staple gun will shoot a staple as fast as you can press it down, and the holes so tiny there's no need to fill it in.
It needs to be fastened every 4" on the edges, and from 6 to 8" in the field.
 

gfw

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I am talking about underlayment - it's 3/8" plywood - and attaching that to the OSB/Chipboard subfloor.
Why would I not want *some* of the nails to go through the subfloor and into the joists?
I was told (by the people who will eventually lay the linoleum) that they use a kind of cement adhesive that will fill in small issues like a screw that is countersunk a tiny bit too far.

That said, when you said "it's not an issue", do you mean it will be ok to have no fasteners under the toe kick?
Would a staple gun fit under the toe kick it if I got one?

(And why "never screws"? I asked the flooring people before I started using them, and they said it was fine.)

Thanks!
 

joecaption

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You want the fastners to pull down the underlayment for 100% contact with the the subflooring, there's always a tiny sag between the joist.
I'm hoping you miss understood them, there is no "cement adhesive" that can fill in the gaps or low spots.
Screws are a waste of time and money on this one, as the screw goes in it's going to lift up the underlayment unless it's predrilled and counter sunk, there going to crush the plywood and leave a raised spot.
No the staple gun will not fit under the toe kick, but there's just no need for it to be attached there because no one will ever be standing there.
Just by the things there suggesting will be OK I'd be very concerned if they have a clue what there doing.
I'll make a guess, you mention this to them and there going to say this is the way we have always done this.
Doing something wrong for 20 years does not make it right.
In the past I've been paid $1000.00's to go back and fix so called pros screw ups.
Adding a third layer of shingles over a leaking roof, building a deck even with the threshold and attaching it to the house with no flashing, another one used 1/2 tile board on the floor and used 1/4 on the walls.
I spent my first two years in business doing nothing but going behind just one contractor that had been kicked out of the county.
 

gfw

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Hmm. You've got me a bit worried, but maybe it's terminology. They never said the cement would fill in low spots, but they said that if there was a tiny gap between pieces of the plywood, or dimples the size of a nail/screw head, it would fill that in.

I am in fact drilling and countersinking, and my level says it's all perfectly smooth - no raised areas around screws for example. Just the issue that a few screws were countersunk too far (not by much, we're talking 1/16 at most). I certainly agree that anyone who cares about the amount of time involved should use a pneumatic staple gun. But I'm not paying anyone for my time, and I had quite a bit of spare time during the pandemic. So I asked the future installer about nails and screws and did what they told me. I will be pretty annoyed if they tell me something else now, but I suppose worst case I put filler over the screw heads.
 

Rusty

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If your really talking about 1/4" underlayment and not a subfloor it's not an issue.
Also if it's really underlayment your talking about you should be attaching it between the joist, not to the joist!
You also would be far better off and far faster using a narrow crown staple gun, not nails and never screws!
By using nails your now going to have to go back over every single one of them with filler as well as the seams to fill in the low spots.
A narrow crown staple gun will shoot a staple as fast as you can press it down, and the holes so tiny there's no need to fill it in.
It needs to be fastened every 4" on the edges, and from 6 to 8" in the field.
Joe I have tried to tell people NOT to use screws for underlayment, no one pays attention. When I started in 1973, we nailed it all with small ring-shank nails. That would still be better than screws. Probably overkill, but I have always done every 2 inches on the edges and 4 inches in the field.
 

joecaption

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I did the same thing for many, many years, it gets old having to buy filler, mixing it up, spreading it out, sanding, vacuuming. Switched to a narrow crown and my time was cut by 95%, and no mess.
Even with your over fastening with a narrow crown it might take me a whole 3 or 4 min. per sheet and be done and ready for flooring.
I've had customers try and tell me staples do not hold as well.
I'll staple down a scrap piece to the floor and hand them my flat bar and hammer, they never mention it again. :)
 
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