slownsteady
Well-Known Member
Let's not forget to factor in the weight of the proposed solar panels.
Redo small deck roof to Support Walk-on and Panels
- Thread starter tk3000
- Start date
Help Support House Repair Talk:
nealtw
Contractor retired
I think we can rework this to make it strong enough to carry a load for a few years and guarantee it will be about as water proof as it is now.
oldognewtrick
In memory of
If it were my house I'd install the solar arrays on the roof. This type application would make it a whole lot easier to flash to and give you better orientation to the sun. Just my:2cents:
Neal has a roof application guide, maybe he will post it here?
Neal has a roof application guide, maybe he will post it here?
nealtw
Contractor retired
Hey TK, aren't you happy you asked?
Yeah, I do not know what would be of me if it was not for this forum!
But, still, I realized that the roof was very simple but since it was a small deck I imagined that it would be acceptable. Besides I assumed that the previous owner who got it installed have done it the proper way...
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yep, I can always get the handout online. I am always looking to expand the knowledge base and see different possible solutions and their outcome. Don't know much about roofs in particular, but know may with carpentry.
Whereon this small roof is attached to the main house there is a ledger board with metal brackets, and it also has extra blocking for support. So it seems that the main issue is not having proper support at the other end (it has metal rafter hangers), a simple 2x4 across the 3 posts attache via lag bolts would offer enough support?
The link is not working :help:
Then there is another opportunity to broaden your knowledge base, and your realtor should have informed you of it.
Before you make an offer on a building, ask for a copy of all building permits.
Omissions avail you of a negotiating position, you didn't have before.
You have a good point. I have another smaller solar array on the shingle roofs in the garage as well. The following is an old pic showing only two panels (beginning of installation):
I want to install a much larger array on top of the all seasson roof. And on flat roofs there will be a mechanism to change the angle of the panels in the future.
Yep, I am taking into account too. But it is going to be a relatively small array up there (maybe 8 panels).
Yes you can view them on line see the structural difference between what you have and what a walkable roof requires, which is what you were ultimately after.
Building dept. do not like or encourage non-walkable roofs, however as constructed and used your deck roof will last as long as the rafter tails the ledger is nailed into, last.
Since little that has been offered as possible solutions, would have been serviceable for your existing circumstance, mounting on the existing sloped roof would be a serviceable solution.
oldog: so, if I reinforce or redo this roof deck with extra support, then add osb sheathing, and then weather protection plus z flashing when needed in the transition between shingles; wouldn't it make it a suitable roof? This is intended to be flat roof at first, so the roof pitch should be minimal I would imagine. I also happen to have lots of roof EPDM membrane left from another repair. Couldn't I use the epdm membrance to cover the osb sheathing for extra protection as well?
Based on the following: "
A steep-slope roof (typically a shingle roof) depends upon gravity to cause water to flow in one general direction so it can “shed” the water over the breaks & fasteners in the shingles until it flows to the edge. A low-sloped roof or flat roof can’t depend upon the water to flow in any particular direction so it must form a watertight, monolithic membrane that stays watertight all the way to the drains or edge.
"
It seems that I would need a very smooth surface to have a a flat roof which leaves with epdm membrance option only.
By "Frame rafters that tie into the shingle roof to give a minimum pitch of at least 4/12, and have battens running across the rafter to give lateral support of the metal panels, would be a good place to start." Do you mean that the I should lower the clearance of this roof at the point where it connects tot he main structure and and reattach, cut the ratfters end at an angle, then reattach the rafters to the ledger board (which seems to connect to the main structure?
bud, nealtw: The lower deck seems to be in good shape and has a nice design. It is difficult to have a closer look at the very bottom, but it seems that the 4x4 poles don't go all the way to the ground and instead are attached to the lower deck (supported by metal brackets) but there are some concrete footings on the ground along with wood blocks supporting the lower deck. There are also some reminiscence of concrete slab on the ground (likes stamped concrete slab) Other than that all the wood main members seemed to be in good shape, I have stained it all few months ago and don't recall finding anything bad.
It seems that in order to create such a slope it seems that rafter ends would have to be cut an angle whereon it connects with the ledger board. Would it be possible to create a small slope by using purlins with a flat roof employing epdm for instance? The purlins would also help the air circulation and cooling which is very important for solar panels.
Based on the following: "
A steep-slope roof (typically a shingle roof) depends upon gravity to cause water to flow in one general direction so it can “shed” the water over the breaks & fasteners in the shingles until it flows to the edge. A low-sloped roof or flat roof can’t depend upon the water to flow in any particular direction so it must form a watertight, monolithic membrane that stays watertight all the way to the drains or edge.
"
It seems that I would need a very smooth surface to have a a flat roof which leaves with epdm membrance option only.
By "Frame rafters that tie into the shingle roof to give a minimum pitch of at least 4/12, and have battens running across the rafter to give lateral support of the metal panels, would be a good place to start." Do you mean that the I should lower the clearance of this roof at the point where it connects tot he main structure and and reattach, cut the ratfters end at an angle, then reattach the rafters to the ledger board (which seems to connect to the main structure?
bud, nealtw: The lower deck seems to be in good shape and has a nice design. It is difficult to have a closer look at the very bottom, but it seems that the 4x4 poles don't go all the way to the ground and instead are attached to the lower deck (supported by metal brackets) but there are some concrete footings on the ground along with wood blocks supporting the lower deck. There are also some reminiscence of concrete slab on the ground (likes stamped concrete slab) Other than that all the wood main members seemed to be in good shape, I have stained it all few months ago and don't recall finding anything bad.
It seems that in order to create such a slope it seems that rafter ends would have to be cut an angle whereon it connects with the ledger board. Would it be possible to create a small slope by using purlins with a flat roof employing epdm for instance? The purlins would also help the air circulation and cooling which is very important for solar panels.
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oldognewtrick
In memory of
Yes, a much better solution. Maintain at least a 1/4-12 pitch so water flows away from the house. You won't need a transition flashing at the roof transition. Simply run the rubber up under the shingles at least 12". Glue the rubber to a clean, dry roof deck and it will help reduce bridging at the transition. There should be RTS strips here, but I'll bet you don't have any. Put a 3x3 drip edge on the edges and use 6" cover tape on top of that.
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Regarding the lower deck support. It is somewhat difficult to look closer now due to outpouring rain and also most of the underground footing and support base are covered by dirt and whatnot. Below are few pics showcasing some spots:
(seems to be some concrete footing with heavy wood blocking)
(concrete base where marked)
(lunderneath wood post going underground)
(Another view from the roof deck, note that as nealtw pointed out they all have metal rafter hangers)
I plan on add extra wood members using cedar wood 1/4" osb sheathing+very thin wood panel on top of the osb to create a small pitch, and cover it all with epdm. I wonder whether or not there is some flat metal sheet (without ribs) that I could employ there?
(seems to be some concrete footing with heavy wood blocking)
(concrete base where marked)
(lunderneath wood post going underground)
(Another view from the roof deck, note that as nealtw pointed out they all have metal rafter hangers)
I plan on add extra wood members using cedar wood 1/4" osb sheathing+very thin wood panel on top of the osb to create a small pitch, and cover it all with epdm. I wonder whether or not there is some flat metal sheet (without ribs) that I could employ there?
The panels arrived few days ago. They are all very exited about been deployed and start generating many kilowatts of power per day for years to come. These are thin film panels, but are rather heavy.
On a side note, these thin film solar panels really resemble the black "Monolith" from the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey.": a form for which there is no form
On a side note, these thin film solar panels really resemble the black "Monolith" from the movie "2001: A Space Odyssey.": a form for which there is no form
nealtw
Contractor retired
1 The photo from the attic in two places, to determine where or not you should be concerned about the construction of the other roof.
2.The posts at the ground level, on concrete that flairs at the top so even if it is deep enough may still be subject to moved caused by frost.
The wood that contacts the ground does not appear to be rated for underground use.
3. The single 2x6 nailed to the post is out of the question and can be reworked.
4. The photo of the roof overhang at the back does not show what I wanted to see.
5. How long do you expect it to last, 2, 5, 10, 20 years.
6 If you find the roof on the other addition is as mickey mouse as this, will that change your plans on how to deal with this.
I see a few hundred dollars to make it work , a few hundred more to do it right.
2.The posts at the ground level, on concrete that flairs at the top so even if it is deep enough may still be subject to moved caused by frost.
The wood that contacts the ground does not appear to be rated for underground use.
3. The single 2x6 nailed to the post is out of the question and can be reworked.
4. The photo of the roof overhang at the back does not show what I wanted to see.
5. How long do you expect it to last, 2, 5, 10, 20 years.
6 If you find the roof on the other addition is as mickey mouse as this, will that change your plans on how to deal with this.
I see a few hundred dollars to make it work , a few hundred more to do it right.
I will take some pics from the attic pointing to the end of the main roof that ends there, and take more pics with different views as well.
Both additions (large season room and small deck) seemed to have passed inspection when done: there are blue prints of both of them online at the local county website. But, I do not know if the small deck roof was part of the deal. This small deck seems to be holding its ground for over 20 years (unless they did any work in between). The deck does not seems to have shifted and everything seems to be aligned. I poked the wood posts that go underground and near ground level and none of them seem rotten or bad, but I did not dig; so I will try to dig on spot to see if I can sample the wood below ground.
So, besides the fact that the 2x6 rafters do not have proper support where they meet the 4x4 posts, what would be the major issues regarding the roof deck?
As far as lifespan of this thing, I can always redo it it in the future. But now, I have too many other things ongoing, so I don't want to spend much time or money dealing with it.
In the past I did some repair on the other addition (season room) and posted pics over here. And so far, the repair is holding well.
thanks!
nealtw
Contractor retired
The posts in the ground will show rot right at ground level first, if it is good there it might be trusted somewhat, but with out knowing what it is for sure, we just don't know other than what you know about the load it has been carrying.
I gave you earlier how to insure the fascia doesn't fall off at the house end.
You could just add another 2x6 across the outside making a beam out of that end and thru bolt them to the post And add a couple 2x4s to the post to better support the beam.
That is the quick cheap and easy. I would consider that the new roof will be shorter and then will drop more water near the posts
BUT If you intend to fix this in a year or two there are things you could do so that you don't have tear it down when that time comes.
There may be a couple approaches to that and still they would not be that big of a deal.
If they have built the other roof like this and I suggest they have, then there is no venting in that area and many will tell you that a closed system with rubber on top does not need venting but the problem is at the bottom of the house roof where it gets very close the to original outside wall and ice damming can occur there and leaks will show up in the main house.
I gave you earlier how to insure the fascia doesn't fall off at the house end.
You could just add another 2x6 across the outside making a beam out of that end and thru bolt them to the post And add a couple 2x4s to the post to better support the beam.
That is the quick cheap and easy. I would consider that the new roof will be shorter and then will drop more water near the posts
BUT If you intend to fix this in a year or two there are things you could do so that you don't have tear it down when that time comes.
There may be a couple approaches to that and still they would not be that big of a deal.
If they have built the other roof like this and I suggest they have, then there is no venting in that area and many will tell you that a closed system with rubber on top does not need venting but the problem is at the bottom of the house roof where it gets very close the to original outside wall and ice damming can occur there and leaks will show up in the main house.
What is the frequency of the connector in the photo, in msg. #19.
nealtw
Contractor retired
I would go on both side of each rafter, just to get more nails in there. But we don't know the condition of the rafter tails so?
