some roof questions

Discussion in 'Roofing and Siding' started by buffalo, Dec 29, 2013.

  1. Dec 29, 2013 #1

    buffalo

    buffalo

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    [​IMG]

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  2. Dec 29, 2013 #2

    buffalo

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    Tried posting pics from my gallery but it wont work from my cell phone.

    Once weather breaks I want to roof this tarped section of my roof. Right now there are a couple square plastic vents roofed in and that's it. It was an inlaw setup but I'm going to make it one large master bed.so the interior will get gutted , some beams installed for load bearing walls , and looking into weather the current stick built roof needs to be beefed up.I believe its all 2x4. The living space is aprox 22'x22' . Give or take a foot. The roof has a single layer of shingles over some 1x4 tounge and groove board.

    My first question is about venting. There is no soffit so a ridgevent would be worthless? What are my options? Can I build an extension to the roof to come out another foot , at a different angle and create a soffit and then cut a ridge vent? That might also help keep snow and rain away from the house?What are my options?

    My second question is about the type of roof I want to install. I was thinking about going with a metal roof. I know the materials will cost more , but I'm thinking it will be a lot easier for me and I could do it with a friend a lot quicker.looking around online I see a lot of aluminum roofs with exposed screws and 30guage metal. They seem kinda cheesy . I'm told expansion and contraction can pull the screws around and the rubbers on the screws can fail over time.
    I'm a sheetmetal worker by trade , mainly HVAC , but years back I worked for an archetectual company and installed a few standing seam roofs where the clips and screws are concealed. So then I'm thinking even a step further and why don't I just make my own panels and gutters out of a 26 guage stainless steel. I have acess to breaks and shears and such. I've soldered stainless before , I know that's a pain , one job was a chemical plant and all roof components had to be stainless.I really haven't done a price check yet to see the cost differance between a prefab and me just buying my own sheets but I'm guessing its got to be significant. Am I crazy here?
     
  3. Dec 30, 2013 #3

    nealtw

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    Stainless sounds expensive, but let's leave that for now and look at the rest of the problems. If you had a new roof framed today, the rafters would be 2x10s with 2x4 straping above that to allow for venting above the insulation. The heel cut is what we measure from the top of the wall on the outside to the underside of the sheeting so a 2x10 rafter with a seat cut to sit on a 2x4 wall with a 2x4 stapping would have a heal cut of about 7.5 inches, engineered trusses are built with a simular heel cut.
    If your 2x4 rafters have a seat cut to sit on the wall you will have a heel cut from 0 to 3.5 inches so extending the tails on the rafter will not give you enough space above the wall for insulation and air flow.
    Normally we would say to add material to the bottom of the rafters to allow for more insulation but even with that you could still have a problem with ice dams if you are in a cold zone.
    I do want to see the photos both inside and outside of the house and welcome to the site.
     
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  4. Jan 1, 2014 #4

    buffalo

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    Hey neal thx for the response . I'm the same guy you were advising in the introduction thread . I got on a laptop today and fixed the pics . I figure a 4x10 sheet of 26ga SS costs me about 100$ . The metal cost would be between 2-3K for that job including gutters and all . Sometimes I get carried away and maybe im on overkill mode?

    Like you said , leaving that aside for now , you can see in the pics I have no soffit . Ice dams are all around my house , the current gutters are worthless even in summer . Right now I have a foot of snow all over the roof and iceickels from the roof to the ground (I do break what I can) .

    The ceiling in this space is only 7'5" . Maybe I'm better off just extending the walls and installing trusses? I have a ton of work though and I
    hate to devote to much money to this small area of the house .

    I do have short videos too , is there a way to post those , or maybe just a youtube link? I cant get into the attic without opening up from the inside and its in the teens and singles digits this time of year so those pics will have to wait a bit . Right now that area is on a hydronic baseboard zone I been keeping at 45F since Im on oil and its costing me a fortune . (Yes my cheap butt sleeps in there , and no , my wife doesn't)
     
  5. Jan 1, 2014 #5

    buffalo

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  6. Jan 1, 2014 #6

    buffalo

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    This is probabaly a bad interpretation of what I was thinking ....but could I cut triangle framing and add it to the bottom of my roof like in the picture above , at the back right of the structure? That would give me an overhang/soffit , with a cavity for air to travel up to a ridge vent?
     
  7. Jan 2, 2014 #7

    nealtw

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    Yes that would work, we have also added swoops on the edge of the roof for the same effect but the curved fasia on the end is a ****. You already have a prety low slope so those fixes may be questionable. Your quicker fix might be just to add 2x8 rafter right on top of the old roof, 6 inches of insulation before new sheeting. A level cut on the bottom to meet a 2x4 liner and you will have maybe 8 or 10 inches for vented soffet that would still be above window height and a ridge vent on the top.
     
  8. Jan 2, 2014 #8

    buffalo

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    So basically that would almost be building a New roof over the existing? Would i have to worry about the added weight? I gotta snap some pics and beg your advise as to weather the existing framing is sufficient , in my own unexperienced opinion , I think its not so good.

    At that point might i be better off cutting the whole roof right off and ordering trusses? Then I can raise the ceiling a couple feet too ? I want to be cheap , but I want it to be right. An even balance I suppose. I know the main house is gonna cost me a bit. As long as I'm framed and water tight I don't mind spending years on the interior.
     
  9. Jan 2, 2014 #9

    nealtw

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    If you go with new trusses, have the truse company add the inhches you need you would'nt want to just add to the wall for extra height it would be a weak point.
    If you were going to add new rafters above, you would add a new ridge board also you would just have to beef up the support on each end for the ridge beam, The lower end of the rafters would put weight on the exterior wall. Either way, it should be run past an engineer anyway.

    With new trusses you could leave the walls low and do it with sissor trusses for a vaulted ceiling with out adding much cost, if any.
     
  10. Jan 2, 2014 #10

    buffalo

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    I had thought about step vaulting the ceiling as is , if I left the roof framing , and it was worthy . I would have to have exposed joists , but somehow make it look good. If I went this route , what is the best option for venting without a ridge vent?
     
  11. Jan 3, 2014 #11

    nealtw

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    You can always goes go with the no vent system, you still need enough insulation above the wall

    insulatuin.jpg
     
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  12. Jan 5, 2014 #12

    buffalo

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    Ok , thinking out load here...what if I did put a metal roof on. I run 2x4 over the existing roof verticalaly towards the peak. Then I run 2x4 purlin horizontally across and install a metal roof over that. Then i have good airflow under the new roof. I address any possiable structural needs on the existing framing , and I can staple insulation between the existing trusses.
     
  13. Jan 6, 2014 #13

    nealtw

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    If you insulate like that you will be making the attic a conditioned area with a different set of problems and four inches is still not enough.
    I have spent a little time thinking about this, sometimes the short cut are not worth the effort, this is small straight forward roof, get a price from a truss company just to see what the cost would be like. Look at rising the pitch to match the pitch of the other roof, vaulted to raise the ceiling and solve all the problems.
     
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  14. Jan 7, 2014 #14

    buffalo

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    That was originally my plan , but the main house is gonna cost me a lot so I was seeing my options , I don't really need a vault ceiling , maybe just by a foot then pack insulation in there but not to the deack.
    But your right I should at least check the prices of trusses. Were supposed to get 3-5' of snow withing 24 hrs , maybe the roof wont even make it .:)

    24" on center would be the norm?
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2014
  15. Jan 7, 2014 #15

    nealtw

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    24" would be the norm where I am, that would be a question for the truss guy. I suggested a vault in order to solve the height problem of the wall, I doubt if it would drive the price up much if at all. You would hate to change the roof and still have low ceiling but leving the ceiling in place may save the drywall, you would just leave the ceiling joists and drywall in place.
    Hopefully you have insurance again the snow damage.;)
     
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  16. Jan 7, 2014 #16

    buffalo

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    I'm sure I'm starting to sound like the crazy guy with wacko ideas..

    But asumming I was able to leave the existing roof framing , I was thinking about building a new 2x4 wall over the existing walls. I'm going to rewire the house and the existing wire is old and no grounds. I know the insulation probabaly needs improvment. So why not just abandon it all and put up new? Then I would have 2 walls of insulation? I'm on oil hydronics for heat currently , but I'm going to install ductwork for forced air , so I can demo any heating lines in the way with no issue. The ceiling itself has 1'x1' tiles that gotta go . At any rate all new drywall will be installed.

    Any reason my wall over wall might be a bad idea?
     
  17. Jan 7, 2014 #17

    buffalo

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    Double post
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2014
  18. Jan 7, 2014 #18

    oldognewtrick

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    You don't want to create a double vapor barrier. Moisture can get trapped and cause really bad mold issues.
     
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  19. Jan 7, 2014 #19

    buffalo

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    I dont believe this is any plastic behind the existing drywall. If i demoed the drywall and left the insulation would it be any different than a 2x6 wall (obviously being slightly thicker)?
     
  20. Jan 7, 2014 #20

    nealtw

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    Like oldog say it could be a problem but if you just gut the space and build new walls matching stud for stud. You would have good insulation value then. Evan paint on the old drywall can be a vapour barrier and can cause problems.
    Back to the roof ; As you suggested earlier about 2x4s above the rafters and then straping. If you remove the old sheeting for the bottom 2 ft, that would give you space for more insulation of the wall. You would be looking to get 6" batts there with air flow over that.
    Or one more idea; Remove 8" of drywall from top of wall and ceiling add firestop behind the wall drywall and and build a sloped ceiling there on the 45. Then you could add drip edge venting and you would be good to go.
    It's good to explore all ideas before starting, nothing is crazy until you do it.
     
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