thru the wall AC

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robfnk

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I have a thru the wall AC unit which no companies will service hence DIY I am a licensed electrician and worked on larger units many years ago. My unit is blowing cool air but not cool enough. The unit uses 410A refrigerant it calls for a low psig of 300 and a high psig of 500. These are terms I'm not familiar with. With the unit running the refrigerant reads about 120psi. But the compressor is only drawing about 1/2 it's rated amps. The coils are all clean as is the filter. Blower fans are running fine. The line coming off the compressor is cold just not cold enough. Can anyone tell me what to check or why the capacitor would not be drawing full amps.
 
Welcome.
In your quest for service have any of those contacted, suggested you remove the internal unit and bring it to them, for service?

Which is the practice I'm familiar with.
 
not a 1 of them. I offered to bring it to a number of them but they all said they would not work on one.
 
Sorry to hear that, likely do to the cost/equip of refrigerant recycling.
 
Sorry to hear that, likely do to the cost/equip of refrigerant recycling.
Getting that way with a lot of things. Labor cost is so high in most cases it's cheaper to throw a lot of things away then it is to fix them. A lot of times I will fix my own devices\appliances but sometimes I either can't get the parts needed or it takes weeks to get them. Warranties mean nothing anymore a lot of companies. This AC was still under warranty but Frigidaire said the companies selling on Amazon are not authorized distributors so they would not honor the warranty. But they had no problem when I registered the unit
 
I've found a like, although dissimilar response from RIDGID tools, IE, if home desperado fails to timely register a sale, RIDGID won't allow the tool to be warrantied.

Society is becoming relegated, from sustainability, to consumption.
 
Hi Robfnk,
The 300/500 psi-g pressures you read on the unit are most likely the factory test pressures.
Operating pressures vary minute-by-minute depending on many factors.

Some factors that have an effect on pressures are:
Ambient temperature at the condensing unit, air temperature across the evaporator coil, cubic feet per minute across each coil, enthalpy, whether it uses a capillary tube or expansion valve, the superheat, the subcooling. There are many, many more factors. Even how much wax has built up inside the capillary tube, pressure drop across the filter-drier or how much debris is on the expansion valve screen can have a tremendous effect on pressures.


R-410a complicates diagnosis even further because it is a blend. All blend refrigerants act differently than single component refrigerants.


If you're inclined to diagnose further, download a temperature-pressure chart for 410-A. Study how to use the chart and you can get an idea of about what the high side pressure should be. This, coupled with the suction pressure & line temperatures can at least help narrow down the list of possible reasons for low or no cooling. Be mindful that if your system is a capillary tube system, the charge amount is critical. There is no room for error on a small unit.


You mentioned that the line coming off the compressor is "cold just not cold enough". Assuming you're talking about the suction line (the larger diameter one), again dozens of factors enter into the diagnosis. Sometimes barely below ambient is normal, sometimes condensation to almost the compressor (but never ice) is normal.


You said "capacitor not drawing full amps". One doesn't check amperage at the capacitor. It will always be low. Compressor terminal "R" amps can also read below the name plate specification depending on the same many factors mentioned in the second paragraph.



As you can see from above, diagnosis isn't an "over the phone" kind of project. You may enjoy learning more about how this all works and experimenting on your unit.


S.W.A.G:
If the unit is old and you meant compressor (not capacitor) amps are low, the coils are clean, the air flow is good and the suction line is barely cool- your compressor valves are worn. (Just an over-the-phone guess. I could be way wrong, but this is common.)


One Important Caution is to Always Wear Eye Protection when working with refrigerants. Gloves are a good idea to prevent frostbite because the R-410a boiling point is 55.3 degrees-F below zero.


I hope this very long post isn't too terribly boring. I wanted to give you an overall view of how many factors can cause the symptoms you're experiencing. It's like a symphony. If even one of the musicians plays flat, the whole concert is off kilter.



Paul

PS: Many utilities will pick up and pay you for your old unit- working or not. Our electric utility gave me $50.00 for an old window air. Many also have rebates if you buy a new air conditioner- window, through the wall, mini-split or central.

If you like DIY projects, there are many mini-split units that are do-it-yourself installations. Everything is pre-charged- even the lineset. You simply attach the lines at each component with a wrench and you're in business. Most likely, you'll need a 20 or 30 amp, single phase, 230 volt circuit, but you're an electrician so the expensive part is not so epensive!

Mini-Splits tend to be more energy efficient than through-the-wall or window machines. You can even get ones with multiple room capabilities. Inverter units, too. Supply House Com has several. Even grow house supply companies sell them.
 
Last edited:
Hi Robfnk,
The 300/500 psi-g pressures you read on the unit are most likely the factory test pressures.
Operating pressures vary minute-by-minute depending on many factors.

Some factors that have an effect on pressures are:
Ambient temperature at the condensing unit, air temperature across the evaporator coil, cubic feet per minute across each coil, enthalpy, whether it uses a capillary tube or expansion valve, the superheat, the subcooling. There are many, many more factors. Even how much wax has built up inside the capillary tube, pressure drop across the filter-drier or how much debris is on the expansion valve screen can have a tremendous effect on pressures.


R-410a complicates diagnosis even further because it is a blend. All blend refrigerants act differently than single component refrigerants.


If you're inclined to diagnose further, download a temperature-pressure chart for 410-A. Study how to use the chart and you can get an idea of about what the high side pressure should be. This, coupled with the suction pressure & line temperatures can at least help narrow down the list of possible reasons for low or no cooling. Be mindful that if your system is a capillary tube system, the charge amount is critical. There is no room for error on a small unit.


You mentioned that the line coming off the compressor is "cold just not cold enough". Assuming you're talking about the suction line (the larger diameter one), again dozens of factors enter into the diagnosis. Sometimes barely below ambient is normal, sometimes condensation to almost the compressor (but never ice) is normal.


You said "capacitor not drawing full amps". One doesn't check amperage at the capacitor. It will always be low. Compressor terminal "R" amps can also read below the name plate specification depending on the same many factors mentioned in the second paragraph.



As you can see from above, diagnosis isn't an "over the phone" kind of project. You may enjoy learning more about how this all works and experimenting on your unit.


S.W.A.G:
If the unit is old and you meant compressor (not capacitor) amps are low, the coils are clean, the air flow is good and the suction line is barely cool- your compressor valves are worn. (Just an over-the-phone guess. I could be way wrong, but this is common.)


One Important Caution is to Always Wear Eye Protection when working with refrigerants. Gloves are a good idea to prevent frostbite because the R-410a boiling point is 55.3 degrees-F below zero.


I hope this very long post isn't too terribly boring. I wanted to give you an overall view of how many factors can cause the symptoms you're experiencing. It's like a symphony. If even one of the musicians plays flat, the whole concert is off kilter.



Paul

PS: Many utilities will pick up and pay you for your old unit- working or not. Our electric utility gave me $50.00 for an old window air. Many also have rebates if you buy a new air conditioner- window, through the wall, mini-split or central.

If you like DIY projects, there are many mini-split units that are do-it-yourself installations. Everything is pre-charged- even the lineset. You simply attach the lines at each component with a wrench and you're in business. Most likely, you'll need a 20 or 30 amp, single phase, 230 volt circuit, but you're an electrician so the expensive part is not so epensive!

Mini-Splits tend to be more energy efficient than through-the-wall or window machines. You can even get ones with multiple room capabilities. Inverter units, too. Supply House Com has several. Even grow house supply companies sell them.
thanks for the insight. I now have the refrigerant charts and will take a close look at them. You made me go back and read what I wrote. I did say compressor. Since everything was running I made the assumption the refrigerant was probably low and it was. I did not want to overcharge the unit because I know that is also an issue that can cause problems so I was going by what several posted on u-tube but am finding it is not correct. It has been too many years since I've worked on an ac unit so am probably being overly cautious. The unit is only 4 years old. don't know if the valves would be worn in that time. the unit runs about 5 months a year but doesn't work too hard. it is oversized for the room (12x12 room 14000btu) and I never set it below 80. I'm more concerned about keeping the humidity down. It's a tack room with saddles and bridles in it and they are a chore to clean when they get moldy.
I've learned warranties and companies mean nothing anymore as not many stand behind what they sell. This unit came with a 5 year warranty but Frigidaire would not stand behind it. Apparently the dealer was not an authorized dealer but they said nothing about that when I registered the at the time of purchase so I'm am trying to get a couple more years out of it. This was a $700 unit so I would not have had a problem paying someone $200-$300 to test and charge it but like I said no one wants to touch one. Something I don't understand because I've wired hundreds of these units for commercial buildings over the years. They must have had someone who would work on them. Switching to a mini split unit now is not as easy as it sounds since it would require new siding outside and new paneling inside to cover the existing unit. Can be done but I would rather not if I don't have to.
 
Perhaps you could rent or borrow a vacuum pump, evacuate the system and re-charge to the weight indicated on the tag or in the owner's manual. A kitchen or postal scale that resolves to 1/2 ounce will be sufficient to get you very close. If you empty it, I'd suggest cutting in a new filter-drier.

Probably the most important things to watch for when "estimate charging" are slugging (liquid refrigerant hitting the suction valves) or too high a head pressure, which hopefully a pressure switch in the piping will open the circuit before damage.

It sounds like you got the giant run-around on warranty. Electrolux (Frigidare's owner) accepted the registration, so they can be forced to pay- if the work & time on your part is worth the result. (Twenty hours, 15 calls, 19 e-mails and 3 bottles of ulcer medication...)

You said it is oversized. Being oversized, I'm surprised it dehumidifies. Dehumidification is the first thing that is lost when over-sizing units. If you do replace it, try to match the new to heat gain calculations- ideally using your target temperature. Or, swap out for a dedicated central dehumidifier to save on cost.

Also- I forgot to mention earlier that there are US federal tax incentives to replacing the unit in certain circumstances. I know it's not much, but this plus the utility rebates may help take some of the sting out if you have to replace it.

I'm sure you will get it running well!
Paul
 
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