Extension of drain pipe and sewer pipe connector replacement?

[slownsteady]

The sawzall should work fine. You will have to work to keep the cut square, though. You can use oil on the cut; it will not burst into flames.
For the record, lye and lime are not the same. Lye is water-soluble, so I guess that it will eventually absorb into the soil and no longer be caustic.

 

[jmr106]

I have these chemical gloves.

Lye is apparently Sodium Hydroxide.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-Long-Cuff-Neoprene-Glove-Large-EB00131-L/203613745

They go about halfway up the arm. They are listed as "Good" protection from Sodium Hydroxide. The only step up is Excellent, which apparently is a vinyl glove of some sort. HD doesn't carry that kind of stuff in the store, however.

I threw on a simple P100 strapped face mask just for the basic crawling around in the crawlspace today setting off the fumigators. Man, after 5 minutes, I could feel the general humidity and atmosphere down there. It was only about 11am and the sun wasn't even fully up yet. Maybe in the early 80's at most. The air keeps it cooler down there when running, but when off, it is pretty interesting down there. Seemed almost hard to breathe after a bit of time. I'll be taking a lot of periodic breaks.

I was reading some of the stuff about lye, though...I came across this.

"Caustic lye products pose other dangers to surfaces. They can dissolve substances to the user's advantage, such as hair clogs in a shower drain, as well as to the user's detriment, such as the adjacent shower curtain. In fact, these products can damage and corrode paint, metal, cloth, plastic and especially skin. It can be so reactive that, in its solid form, it should be kept away from metals, such as aluminum, and the open air. It usually is non-combustible when dry, but it could ignite and cause a fire when mixed with water."

Am I going to get a boom if I throw this stuff in powder form in a wet hole? Pretty sure there's a lot of aluminum in that HVAC system...makes me kind of iffy.

 

[nealtw]

http://unionsafe.org.au/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Sewage-Spills.pdf
https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/ehs/publications/guidance_flooding.htm

 

[jmr106]

Is a mixture of bleach water a viable alternative for spraying the ground, pipes, etc., with?

 

[nealtw]

Is a mixture of bleach water a viable alternative to spraying the ground, pipes, etc., with?

You are assuming I read those two posts.
I don't like the idea of lye, and I don't know about lime so I really don't have any usable knowledge. I would ask the people at the city for common practice.

 

[mabloodhound]

Definitely do not use the orbital action of the sawzall. That's for wood. The regular action will work fine on cast iron...slow and easy for a nice straight cut. Not much of a fire hazard from cutting cast iron this way so any lubricant is fine, BUT probably not necessary on that small pipe. And yes, you could get backup into the sink drain from a toilet flush.
I do not envy your job.

And if you are going to fix that 4" main drain you definitely want to start at the toilet and replace the entire setup with PVC, at least to the part of the main under the house going to the outside. You'll have to dig up a little bit there to get the rubber connector on.
And at the toilet, you may have to replace a small potion of the floor sheathing to get the new flange to work at the correct height.
Did I say I don't envy you?

Dave Mason

 

[jmr106]

Definitely do not use the orbital action of the sawzall. That's for wood. The regular action will work fine on cast iron...slow and easy for a nice straight cut. Not much of a fire hazard from cutting cast iron this way so any lubricant is fine, BUT probably not necessary on that small pipe. And yes, you could get backup into the sink drain from a toilet flush. I do not envy your job.

And if you are going to fix that 4" main drain you definitely want to start at the toilet and replace the entire setup with PVC, at least to the part of the main under the house going to the outside. You'll have to dig up a little bit there to get the rubber connector on.
And at the toilet, you may have to replace a small potion of the floor sheathing to get the new flange to work at the correct height.
Did I say I don't envy you?

Dave Mason

I don't envy me, either. Cutting with a one-handed sawzall with a blade for cast iron. The saw seems to keep the torque in check. No orbital will be used. Should be fairly easy to make a clean cut. I wish I could change the whole pipe. The pipe under the sink is smaller diameter pvc clamped onto the metal pipe where it joins the wall and dives into the crawlspace vertically. But nobody can touch the metal pipe going vertical in the wall itself without ripping out everything. That has no leaks, however, so it should be fine.

4" sewer pipe doesn't seem to be leaking as bad lately for some reason. There wasn't even a softball-sized puddle under it in the dug out hole, like there usually is. That's going to be a project on another day. The toilet will come up, new flange, etc. I'm planning to replace down to where the pipe goes into the dirt (will dig up a bit on the inside part of the crawlspace). I'd do it further than that, but since she wants to eventually sell, I don't see a point in going all out. It won't sell for more money either way. Also, I'll have to figure out which of those branch pipes is the old bathroom sink drain pipe. No need to run that one since it goes nowhere. I'll have to figure out which one it is first. Not sure if I can get the stupid thing out of the bathroom wall/floor once I cut it, however. Those bathroom sink water pipes are still galvanized and I don't want to be banging on them.

Should I be trying to get a double clamp shielded coupling? I see single clamps on each side like this. http://www.homedepot.com/p/2-in-EPDM-Rubber-Shielded-Coupling-P3001-22/100372290

The shielded ones seem a lot better than these regular ones http://www.homedepot.com/p/2-in-x-2-in-DWV-Flexible-PVC-Coupling-P1056-22/100096490

It seems like the shielding keeps it from digging into the rubber.

 

[nealtw]

The kitchen sink pipe in the wall,, just put a new pipe down thru the floor. But you would still need to have the vent going up.
Either clamping will work and this is temp so you will be taking it out., just make sure it fits the two pipes you are joining.

 

[jmr106]

The kitchen sink pipe in the wall,, just put a new pipe down thru the floor. But you would still need to have the vent going up.
Either clamping will work and this is temp so you will be taking it out., just make sure it fits the two pipes you are joining.

I'm planning to just run a new pipe through the floor under the sink. I wonder what the state of Georgia plumbing codes say about that...I'll have to check and see. The bathroom sink pipe runs through the floor. The toilet water supply pipe also has pvc coming up through the floor. Not sure if those are code or were just quick fixes.

I don't like the way the pipe looks under the kitchen sink. I see specifically 1 1/2" pvc pipe clamped onto the old cast iron pipe that goes into the wall.

That pipe looks absolutely cruddy. I don't want to replace all of the other pipe and have that one start leaking in the wall. Looks like a disaster to try to get that thing out of the wall, too. Thinking of just running my own 1 1/2" pvc through the floor all the way to the sewer line.

I presume that before they had the pipe converted to pvc (told that a plumber did this, as well), there must have been some leaking under the sink. Some of the wood under the kitchen counter has apparently rotted a little over the years. I think a bit of the floor may be rotten, as well. It is only in the area immediately under the sink, maybe a 2' x 2' or so area. What's my best bet for that? Get rid of whatever old wood that I can pull up and just put down some plywood over the top (screwed down to joists) and punch a hole through for the pipe? That will be irritating since the water pipes/valves are in the way and I can't just put the wood down over the top of them, of course. The drain pipe...I can probably cut that out with some kind of door knob saw attachment or something. It looks like some of the old flooring is still under there and solid.

 

[nealtw]

The quick fix for the kitchen would be to go up thru the floor for the new drain cap the old pipe and put a tee where the joiner is now and use the old pipe for the vent and leave that pipe removal for another day.
To change the pipe in the wall would be just dig into the wall and cut the pipe above the tee and pull it up thru the roof and drop in a new one, there might be another hub in the attic but I doubt it.
Replacing the floor with plywood yes, good time to change the water feed to pex, if you run them back to where there is copper pipes you could join them there with shark bite, push on fittings, all you need is a crimping tool.

 

[jmr106]

The quick fix for the kitchen would be to go up thru the floor for the new drain cap the old pipe and put a tee where the joiner is now and use the old pipe for the vent and leave that pipe removal for another day.
To change the pipe in the wall would be just dig into the wall and cut the pipe above the tee and pull it up thru the roof and drop in a new one, there might be another hub in the attic but I doubt it.
Replacing the floor with plywood yes, good time to change the water feed to pex, if you run them back to where there is copper pipes you could join them there with shark bite, push on fittings, all you need is a crimping tool.

Meh..weekend project coming up. Gosh, the projects at this place always end up having sub-projects to make it a lot longer.

At first I was wondering what in the heck is going on.

Got the top connection on the bottom of the sink itself. That could probably use replacing. I see no leaks in it, but it looks kind of whacky.

Then it goes down into the p-trap, which seems normal. However, that top drain pipe coming down from the sink is 1 1/4". Then it goes down into a 1 1/2" p-trap, which then turns into 1 1/4" until it connects to the cast iron pipe. At the cast iron pipe, it steps back up with a connector from 1 1/4" to 1 1/2". The cast iron is 1 1/2". We're apparently playing musical chairs with the sizes.

It looks like the bottom pipes may be some kind of older copper pipe.

Is PEX replacing copper pipes for water now or is it kind of an either/or situation? Will PEX go directly into galvanized (say, if you didn't have time to finish and wanted to do some at a time)?

 

[nealtw]

If the pipe are copper you could just cut them below the floor and join them later with shark bits
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.sharkbite-straight-coupling---12-in.1000791803.html
There are cheap cutters like this.
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.no-104-tubing-cutter-316-in---516-in.1000179459.html

I don't think you want to go to steel pipe you need an adapter to the pipe threads

Pex works with many fittings

 

[slownsteady]

AFAIK, pex is used primarily for supply lines. I got the impression that Neal was talking about replacing them eventually.

 

[slownsteady]

If all the other drain lines go down thru the floor, except for this one that goes into the wall, I'd be concerned that there is a reason for that. Like Maybe there is a tee behind that wall and it is a vent stack. If so, would it be okay to cap that pipe?

 

[nealtw]

If all the other drain lines go down thru the floor, except for this one that goes into the wall, I'd be concerned that there is a reason for that. Like Maybe there is a tee behind that wall and it is a vent stack. If so, would it be okay to cap that pipe?

Cap it below the floor had a tee where it joins now and use the pipe in the wall, it can be changed later.
He need to change the plywood and will disrupt the feed lines, but the are copper, so I suggested shark bits for now.

 

[jmr106]

I'm sure there's likely a vent. There is an "unknown" pipe on the back of the house over a bedroom. In the past, it had a leaking rubber boot around it and that was changed. It is in line with the kitchen, as well. The only thing is...if that pipe going into the wall under the sink went straight up, it would be in the middle of a window that is about 3 feet up from it right over the sink. So it would have to either bend with some 90 or 45 degree connections to get around the window and then go vertical. It would then 90 over the kitchen ceiling in the rafters, across the kitchen ceiling and all the way to the back side of the house where there is virtually no room in that little side rafter area...then go vertical out of the roof.

Kind of curious...do all houses have vents on the back only for aesthetic purposes? This house doesn't have a single pipe or vent on the front of the house. Everything is on the back. I've noticed that in the neighborhood here, all houses seem to be like that.

Taken by the owner of the company that did the roof in February:

I think the rusty looking area of the pipe that goes into the wall under the sink is just rust from where they had the leaky old cast iron drain pipe years ago. It probably ran down the drain pipe and got it wet back to where it goes into the wall. If that was leaking in the wall, I'd imagine that it would run down and rust the part of the pipe near the wall in the crawlspace and keep running down. However, that section closer to the wall before the hole in the pipe doesn't really look rusty. I think I'm just going to go with the original plan and cut the pipe back near the wall, running pvc to the sewer line and clamp on temporarily until I tackle the sewer line in the near future. When I thought about cutting and capping the pipe under sink and going through the floor with a new pipe, I wasn't really thinking of a vent for the pipe drain, since the sewer pipe that it runs into has its own vent pipe elsewhere. That's way too much stuff going on. I'm going to change the part that is bad and run it to the sewer line. Change out the other pipes and leave it at that. At some in the near future, I'll do something about the wood under the sink and run the water pipes up with better connections.

 

[nealtw]

I like the idea of leaving well enough alone, some one can finish that up if they rework the kitchen.

 

[jmr106]

I have had a lot of the "hardware store" type of people tell me to just cut the section of the pipe out with the leak and replace that. However, I have this gut feeling that somewhere in that pipe is a clog. My father developed mental issues that continued to get worse up until we lost him, so my mother has asked me, "Do you think that crazy thing just went down there and punched a hole in the pipe when it was stopped up?" I really couldn't answer that for sure. It is something that he "might" have done to rig it instead of calling a plumber or changing the pipe. That would explain why not much was done to fix the water issues in the crawlspace, too. Or...it could be the other issue that I solved a long time ago. The former owners had the dryer venting into the crawlspace in the front corner of the house, about 10 feet from where this pipe happens to be. Maybe the humidity and moisture got to it. Yet the rest of the pipe doesn't appear to be bad. Just the part that is leaking. So, I suspect a clog further down from the leak and all of the water is likely going out of that hole before the clog.

After I get the drain pipe fixed (I have everything to do it tomorrow morning), I'd like to do something about those pipes and the floor under the sink maybe on Sunday morning or another near-future date. Those are some weird water pipes. They "move" more than I think they should. I can literally pull up on the (copper?) pipes leading down into the floor and they both pull up around many inches up to half of a foot as if mobile. It doesn't break them...it just seems like they freely move. I can't officially locate them in the photos. One reason being that the stove pipe is odd and likely not up to code, either. I'll have to find some pics of it. The heating/air system is on a flex pipe connected to what looks like a very similar galvanized-looking gas pipe. That gas pipe in turn runs across there in a similar area where copper-looking water pipes are. I obviously don't want to mistake those. The gas pipe goes from the galvanized pipe to - as best as I can tell - copper pipe and goes up to the stove. That's probably not code. I won't be touching that one.

 

[nealtw]

Pipes do wear out over time and you will likely find that it is half full of sludge and rust anyway.
The copper pipes moving at the floor just indicates how far away they are tied to the floor joist, first clamp my be 6 or 8 ft from where they go up.
Older gas lines were steel pipe and newer ones are copper, there should be yellow markers on it to indicate a gas line.

You may want to find where you could rent a small auger in a hurry if you need it when you open the pipe

 

[nealtw]

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls6zMhaQpNU[/ame]