Improper plumbing & trying to remodel bathroom/laundry

[nealtw]

I read it all once, just a few thoughts.
A 30" bathroom door is plenty, after you get the tub in there. and change the door to open against the wall. If you have ever been in a room with the door opening the wrong way, well it is silly at best. Move the light switch.
If the room is wider than the tub, strap the wall at one end so the tub fits, after the tub is in strap the rest of the wall and re-drywall it. Use a door frame for a 2x6 wall and cut it to fit the thickness of the wall.
Check the tubs out carefully. they come in many shapes some have an extreme slope so you only get a few inches of water at the back.
When you install the tub, you check all the measurements and attach a 2x4 to the wall for the tub to sit on, we did that and expected it to be right, but the way it was built the tile line is not level, we should have checked that and moved the 2x4 to correct that.

 

[zannej]

I read it all once, just a few thoughts.
A 30" bathroom door is plenty, after you get the tub in there. and change the door to open against the wall. If you have ever been in a room with the door opening the wrong way, well it is silly at best. Move the light switch.
If the room is wider than the tub, strap the wall at one end so the tub fits, after the tub is in strap the rest of the wall and re-drywall it. Use a door frame for a 2x6 wall and cut it to fit the thickness of the wall.
Check the tubs out carefully. they come in many shapes some have an extreme slope so you only get a few inches of water at the back.
When you install the tub, you check all the measurements and attach a 2x4 to the wall for the tub to sit on, we did that and expected it to be right, but the way it was built the tile line is not level, we should have checked that and moved the 2x4 to correct that.

Thanks. I was thinking of either having the door swinging in or out. Out leaves more room in the bathroom when walking in. I might make a cardboard mockup to play around with in the hallway to see what feels the best. We are going to have to change the wall-switch anyway since we will put in a vent fan-- so it will be 3 switches instead of one. I think it would be best to move that to the wall just to the left of entry. I'm still leaning toward having a 32" door even if I have to make one myself-- although 30" would still be better than the current 24" door.

The shower/tub combo I'm hoping to get is the Sterling Advantage set that doesn't require drywall behind anything-- but I imagine it probably wouldn't hurt it if I put something behind one end-- I'm leaning toward putting something behind the exterior wall end.

I think I will have the toilet so the center is 17" from the edge of the vanity, which will give a little extra space-- I think when I measured it would be 17" on each side if I got a 32" tub, but the tub with the window kit is 30" so that gives a couple more inches on the other side between tub and toilet.

I'm thinking of having a double GFCI outlet just in case my brother wants to plug in more than 2 things at a time. I didn't add that to the sketch. I did update my sketches (but not uploaded) to have the triple wall switch moved.

Another issue is figuring out the height at which to place the laundry box. UPC has height limitations but from what I recall, IPC does not. However, IRC has rules-- I think something along the lines of the standpipe being 42" max above the trap. If max height of the trap from floor is 18" and I stretch it, I could conceivably let it be 60" above floor (that is, if my info is correct), but I'm leaning toward around 54" above the floor because that would put it a little above the washing machine top so we could reach more easily.

If it wasn't a code violation, I'd seriously consider rigging the washer the way it is now and just having it dump water under the house-- although I would put in a french drain or something.

I'll have to upload some revised pics later. I keep forgetting to add things to the sketches and it now takes more than 30 seconds for it to process when I try to open the edit menu in Sketchup.

 

[nealtw]

I understand the tub goes against the studs, it it common to strap a wall to make the room fit the tub. No problem getting a 32" door just more door to get around in the room.
Big tubs can be a bear, get it in first, in new house they just move stud from the outside door and clear a path.
I think you can put the washer trap below the floor.

 

[frodo]

I , put 36'' doors in my house, figure my old butt will be in a wheel chair one day

i want to move your walls around. lol...pretty cool program, do they have pipe and fittings ?

 

[nealtw]

Start a new google sketchup with just the floor plan. Most of us are used to reading them and they take a lot less computing

 

[zannej]

Good point, Neal. I think I'll bulk up that exterior wall on the right to make the tub fit and make sure it is filled with insulation. Good idea on the creating a new sketchup thing. I'm half-tempted to see if deleting some of the objects would help. The euro-vanity seems to be what just about killed the program. I need to export it to Milkshape 3D to smooth it out and make it a more cohesive piece. Maybe if it isn't so clunky, it might take up less ram or something.

Frodo, there are some 3D object sets I can buy to do the piping that would probably be better-- but there are also some free sets I downloaded. It doesn't have all of the pieces I need though. And I suck at putting them together. For the most part I've been drawing a circle and then using the push/pull tool to stretch it. I need to figure out if I should have the drains and vents inside the exterior wall or push them out through the wall and have them outside the wall. I'm leaning toward inside and just insulating around/behind them as much as possible and possibly thickening the wall a tad to have more space for insulation. The water supply lines for the lavatory will be inside the room in front of the wall to allow easier access-- and keep them warmer. I will probably have to bump back the existing supply lines toward the wall a little more since I think they are too far in-- but I have to measure.

I wish I knew where the floor joists were. I will have to guesstimate.

If I can get some $, I might be able to afford to hire someone to level the floor and put the tub/shower in.

I will almost definitely have the water supply and hookups for the showerhead and tub spout roughed in by a plumber. I know my friend has done flooring and drywall before so he can help with that part. I need to pry the old floor up and check for rot and try to make the floor more level when putting in the new plywood floors. I might be able to afford getting a new window professionally installed too. I'd also get the ductwork done for the vent fan-- which would basically be extending the current duct by a few feet. I need to have Cotton check the ductwork anyway-- I think there is a disconnect or leak somewhere. I can feel air blowing from the attic in to the kitchen though the hole in the ceiling.

As for moving walls, the bottom wall (which is hidden in most of the pics) is load bearing. The wall between the bathroom and laundry room has electrical and plumbing in it. The wall between the exterior door and the planned washing room has some electrical in it-- notably it has two light switches-- the opposite wall has the circuit box, so the electrical is right there. There is also an attic access in that hallway, but it doesn't have a ladder.

I thought the ceiling was about 8ft high but I measured and it is just a couple inches shy of 9ft.

Here is a revised version with the door flipped and laundry box added

Another shot showing the bathroom a bit more. I changed the exterior door to be one with a cat door-- which is what we currently have-- although it is just a plain wood door-- we used to have a steel door with that pattern though.

And the current layout with more of the plumbing shown.

I'll have to work on the pipes. The connections will all have to be approximated since I suck at rotating things. LOL. I wonder if Google Layout would be better...

 

[slownsteady]

Z: you need to clear out some private messages so you can receive new ones....

 

[nealtw]

The other day you said a gfci for more power, they come in 15 and 20 amp, you will need the twenty for more power but that needs a 20 amp breaker and a #12 wire.
The nine foot ceiling is bonus, when we get that, most times we drop the ceiling to 8 ft that gives you room to join the two plumbing vents in that space and run the bath fan out a side wall with out going in the attic.
You could turn the sink on a 45 in the that corner with a dead space behind, maybe the three in vent could go in that space

 

[zannej]

Slownsteady, I cleared a bunch of stuff from my inbox/outbox. You can try again now.

Neal, Hmm.. I've seen stuff angled in the corner before in pictures. Not sure how it would look/fit in that situation. It might be awkward, but I could play around with it. Thanks for the info on the breaker and the wire. I'll write that down in my notes.

Where I live it does not often get below freezing. It had only snowed once every 20 years until the last few years when it was colder. I don't know if it usually gets below 20 degrees here. The record low was negative 16 back on Feb 13, 1899. Average lows tend to be around 45 degrees here. Basically, the cold is not too much of an issue. So much so that they don't even sell snow shovels and ice scrapers at the stores here.

 

[nealtw]

I wasn't thinking about cold I was thinking easier than digging into outside wall and allows you to run water up behind so you would not need the extension box for the sink.

 

[zannej]

I wasn't thinking about cold I was thinking easier than digging into outside wall and allows you to run water up behind so you would not need the extension box for the sink.

Ah! Ok. Thank you.
I already planned to dig into the exterior wall because it is currently covered with really flimsy ultra-thin wood paneling and there is no insulation behind it. So I plan to take off all the wall panels and put in insulation anyway. From what I recall, it is not against code here to have water supply lines in the wall. I've read that if I keep the pipes against the interior wall and put insulation behind it, the warmth from the room would heat the pipes and insulation would block some of the heat loss.

It's also not just about avoiding putting stuff in the exterior wall so much as I wanted to have a shelf behind the sink so we could put things on it. We will be having to dig in the attic around that area to run the line for GFCI anyway. And I know for a fact that the builders didn't frame out the walls properly and that there are holes in the floors between at least some of the walls. I think they just put the studs directly on joists instead of having a bottom board all the way across.

But I will see how it looks if I angle the sink. I'm thinking it might be more difficult to get the cuts right for the angles though. I know the walls aren't square. I didn't account for it in my sketch, but the hallway is wider just in front of the back door than it is further in-- by almost a full inch.

If I'm feeling better I'll play around with that in sketchup tomorrow.

 

[nealtw]

Part of my thinking was when you vent the 3" line up the outside wall if you are on the gable end, you are into more framing up there but if you lower the ceiling you can jog over and put it anywhere.

 

[zannej]

Part of my thinking was when you vent the 3" line up the outside wall if you are on the gable end, you are into more framing up there but if you lower the ceiling you can jog over and put it anywhere.

Dumb question, but will I need a 3" vent? I think my main vent is only 2"-- but I think it was only serving the toilet fixture as the shower vented through the drain of the sink (which had no vent at all) and the washing machine dumps straight under the house instead of connecting to any plumbing as far as I can tell (I did not see a pipe coming down under the house for the washing machine). The utility sink hookup seems to drain to a french drain or something. It's just a total mess.

I still need to figure out the best configuration. I also need to show the way the roof slopes. I really should get a ladder and take some pics of the inside of the attic in that area (or maybe stick my camera up in there with flash on and take a video) to see how much room I have to play with.

I know it wouldn't look pretty, but I was thinking of having the toilet and lavatory vents just go out the exterior wall and route around the soffit the way some of the other vent pipes do. I still need to fix the kitchen sink vent that terminates under the soffit-- although it has an S-trap so it's a bit wasted anyway. The alternative would be to have all of the vents connect to the existing 2" main vent, but I suspect that 2" is not sufficient. If I were to make that vent 3", then it would have to have the opening in the roof increased and I don't know anyone in the area that I trust to mess with my roof. I do need to have a roofer come out to look at the damage that was done by the tree, but I don't know any roofers since the contractor who installed the metal roof passed away years ago.

I still need to play around with that in sketchup but I need to get a better grasp on how to draw the pipes with it.

 

[nealtw]

The toilet vent is 3" and if you ran it all the way to the kitchen, it has to run up hill, and if the sink is on the outside wall under the soffit area you won't have enough room in the attic to get it there.
When you find some one to fix you roof have them install the boot and if you are not ready with the plumping just have him cap the pipe above the roof.

 

[zannej]

Actually, the 2" vent is the one that is currently serving the toilet for the guest bathroom. It is visible in the laundry room wall where there is a gap under the paneling.

That pipe is in the wall between the current bathroom and laundry room (on the laundry side). The wall on the right is the exterior wall. I'll have to draw some more diagrams after I pick my brother up from work. Basically, the current vent would actually be in the way of the overflow plumbing for the tub.

Here's a photo of the pipe coming down from the toilet and how it reduces to a vent with a fernco fitting (sans metal rings) from the sanitary tee.

Actually, I wonder if that vent is even a full 2"...

The kitchen sink doesn't even have a proper vent since it is S-trapped, but they put lipstick on a pig and routed an improper vent around the window and terminating under the soffit.

 

[nealtw]

Not sure of the vent size needed for the washer and tub but the three for the toilet and sink will fit in the outside wall especially if you are strapping that wall anyway, then you could run the three inch over either below the ceiling or above and change the part going thru the roof to 3" for the laundry room a couple pieces of wood and build drop to hide the pipe. So the roofer could cut that vent pipe in the attic , adapt to a 3 inch and when you do the plumbing the rest could b changed.

 

[frodo]

you do not have to have a 3'' vent. 2'' is plenty big

 

[nealtw]

you do not have to have a 3'' vent. 2'' is plenty big

For the toilet too? :

 

[zannej]

I looked at the plumbing code for my state and it showed 2" as being sufficient for a toilet with a 3" drain. Not sure if that would change if I routed the vents for toilet, sink, tub, and washer to the same vent though. But it might be easier to just do the vent for toilet and sink out the exterior wall and around the soffit and then leave just the tub and washing machine on the existing one through the roof. Although, I might want to route through the attic because the vent on the exterior wall will come up near some powerlines and those damn crape mertle trees. I don't want to have leaves and flowers falling in to the vent pipe. I am going to be busy today/tomorrow so I will have to mess with drawings later.

 

[frodo]

the rule on that is

the aggregate cross sectional area of which shall not be less than that of the largest required building sewer,

house with a 3'' sewer, minimum vents would be a 2'' and a 1 1/2'' [with toilet]

or, without toilet, 2- 1 1/2'' vents



your allowed 24 fixture units on a 2'' vent

toilet..3
kitchen sink..2
tub/shower..2
lav..1
washer..2