Minimum wage increase

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buffalo said:
There's always going to be entry level positions where you learn and then advance. My problem is paying McDonald's employees 15$ an hour because they "need " it. No , you need to get into a profession where you can advance through hard work.
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Companies like Chris has would like to hire a qualifide emplyee and pay X and send him out on a job and charge a little more than 2X. With the hope that with a few emplyees there would be enough to pay his wages and the fixed cost of shop, equipment and support staff. And if he is lucky make a little too. He will tell us that is minimal at best.

If you total Macdonalds expences for food servers world wide, they pay out about 8 billion, after that and all other expences their profit is 8 billion. If they were a responsible employers there would be no need for raising the min wage.
AND if all the low paid people got an education to better their situation, you will have to many qualified people, lowering the value of those jobs and a whole new group of people would be lined up at Macdonalds.
But now they have a massive dept for the eucation they got.
 
When Chris has trouble keeping the good employees and get tired of teaching new ones, he will be forced to pay more, that is the way it should work.
Up here when companies like Macdonalds go thru to many employees they convinced the Gov. that no Canadians would take the job and were allowed to bring in foriegn workers who were then treated like slaves and those workers were afraid to complain and if they quit they have to go home, that has just been addressed.

Everybody feels the pain of the small mom and pop outfit that is struggling but the politician talking about how this will hurt small business, they aren't talking about Chris. They are talking about those small businesses that try to buy elections.
 
Earth is like a living creature, when it gets a virus it will get a fever in order to kill the infection.
 
I actually had a laborer, not an apprentice, a laborer, tell me I needed to pay him journeymans wages because he has kids

I told him it is not my business or responsibility to feed his kids, thats his responsibility

that if he wants me to pay him more he needs to have more knowledge and license

he said it was not fair that the plumber was not married.and was making more than him

never did figure out where he is getting that concept from
 
The real question then is when does a company or an employer become too greedy?
Following the logic of some a small company is in a tough spot when like Chris for example has a couple entry level people he’s paying min wage to bring them on board and to make it run smoother rather than pulling his skilled people to do the mundane task of running for parts or answering the phone. He knows his breaking point where he would rather take back on the mundane work rather than pay more than he can afford. But a large company like McDonalds is just large in scale because it employs say 5000 times as many people and has 5000 times the capital outlay and makes 5000 times the profits and is beholding to the shareholders a profit each of the franchise owners basically is running a small operation and wants to show a profit and they have a set price point target for their product the public is ready to pay, and they say they will have to take measures to eliminate people if forced to pay more. I know of a lot of fast food chains that went out of business so in their cases something made them nonprofit.

I don’t think Chris held a gun to the head of his min wage workers to get them to take the job. It’s his company he should be able to hire who he wants and pay them what he thinks they are worth and give them a raise when they deserve it or fear losing them to someone else. Free enterprise is not just about the owners it’s also about the workers. They have the freedom to ask for more money at any time. They have the freedom to go someplace else where their skills will be recognized if they think they are not being treated fair. And they also can go start a competing company and be the boss if they want.

IMO an economy should be allowed to float and seek it’s own levels that’s when it’s working. The old adage is How much is something worth? Answer : Whatever the customer will bear.
 
IMO an economy should be allowed to float and seek it’s own levels that’s when it’s working. The old adage is How much is something worth? Answer : Whatever the customer will bear.
Supply and demand?
 
thats what my Dad used to say..it is worth whatever some damn fool will pay for it
 
Of course Supply and Demand. No one can say McDonalds doesn’t have ample competition. No one can show how all these fast food places are all owned by the same guy or how they all go about a secret agenda of price fixing. There is abundant supply and some fixed amount of demand. You can’t build 100 McDonalds in some little town and expect them all to turn record profits so the supply has to fit the demand.

Now diamonds are quite a different story. They for the most part come from one place and are controlled by one family and they trickle out the supply to keep demand hi and prices high. Scientists figured out how to make diamonds and the ones they make are now much better than the ones they mine. By all accounts diamond prices should be low, except for marketing that has convinced people they are just not real. Very much the same thing they are now making claims about “organic” foods and charging twice the price. There is supply and demand and there is what someone will pay.
 
Henry Ford not only built alot of cars but he recognized the people had to earn enough to buy them and paid the employees more. He also didn't need fully qualied tradesman to work the line.
 
Henry Ford epitomized what capitalism is all about. He figured out a better way to do something and became enormously rich in the process. He didn’t pay the employees more out of the goodness of his heart or to spread the wealth around. He paid them more to get and keep the best. He wanted a quality work force that could be pushed and asked to do more and more and make his assembly lines run faster and still put out a quality product. If everyone on his line was getting the same pay and benefits they would get at a goof off job of the day he would have had huge turnovers of employees. Instead he had loyalty from his workers asked to do a hard day’s work and getting top compensation for it. When a new employee was hired someone vouched for someone to be hired. Like that’s Tony’s kid and he will be a good worker and keep his nose clean or Tony will straighten him out. Companies were generational and were an extended family. Pay someone a little more and they will be quick to take up your mission and make it theirs.

The apprenticeship I went thru as a young man was modeled after the Henry Ford Trade school. Even some of the books we used were written for that school. That was in the day you didn’t look for someone that could do a job for you, you actually grew that person from the ground up. Now you have the factor someone owes a company for their education and that same company employed them using what they learned and is paying them wages and benefits enough they don’t feel they are employed they feel they are part of the company.

As great as all that is Henry didn’t do any of it out of the goodness of his heart, he did it to make his product better and cheaper and put more money in his own bank account. Sure he was doing good for people in the process. The other interesting point is he did it without the government telling him he had to.
 
So you think the gov. should stay out of business and not interfere with supply and demand or simple regulations?
 
No I think they need some regulations and they don’t need to always be playing one group against another. I don’t know about Canada but our constitution points out pretty clearly what government should do and shouldn’t do. It works best IMO when they do less than more. They shouldn’t be buying milk and dumping it out in order to keep demand and then controlling the price to the point you can’t pay for the feed to make the milk let alone the fuel. Let the free market adjust and the chips fall where they may.


We have one privately owned farmers market / grocery store in town. An old lady owned it and the prices are the lowest around and the quality some of the best in their product they sell. She paid her workers 2 to 3 times any chain grocery store in town and benefits. The only stipulation there was is you come to work. You punch your card and you bust your butt until you punch out. Nothing was computerized and no scanning bar codes old fashion cash registers with rows of keys. There was an absolute zero tolerance policy for not moving and she would fire you in a heartbeat. She ran this big store with about one tenth of the employees any chain store would have and she had people lined up to get in the front door to shop and the back door wanting a job. There are a lot of long time workers there people have been there 30 years or more and about a 1000 that worked there one day. If the government got involved in telling her who she had to hire or she couldn’t ask them to work 60 hours a week during the busy season, her business model would fall apart. When no one is complaining and no one is being hurt. I believe one person’s rights end when they infringe on the rights of the next person.
 
In Canada farm workers work under a different set of rules and I don't know emough about it to comment on that. BUT our farmers do have a quota system I could talk for hours about that.

So you wouldn't be upset if people were coming from all over the world with your education and experience to compete for your job. and if one took your job because she will work twice the hours for half the pay and she is better looking?
 
nealtw said:
In Canada farm workers work under a different set of rules and I don't know emough about it to comment on that. BUT our farmers do have a quota system I could talk for hours about that.

So you wouldn't be upset if people were coming from all over the world with your education and experience to compete for your job. and if one took your job because she will work twice the hours for half the pay and she is better looking?
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if you wish to come here, LEGALLY and work I have no problem competing with you.

then it is mano e mano may the best man win.

but, if you are illegal, willing to work slave wages and slave hours

I just as soon turn you in or kick your butt back over the border

as far as better looking, i dont care what you look like as long as you can do the work..first time she/you bat them eyes , expecting special treatment, your gone
 
nealtw said:
So you wouldn't be upset if people were coming from all over the world with your education and experience to compete for your job. and if one took your job because she will work twice the hours for half the pay and she is better looking?
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No one has the right to a job. There is no requirement to have a job or no guarantee you will keep it. At the end of the week you get paid for the week you worked and you are all square. I’m sure when I got my job there may have been someone else that felt they were better qualified than me. It’s up to the guy that hires you if you get hired. There are people coming from all over the world to take jobs here and there always has been. My grandfather came from Germany and my grandmother from Sweden and they took jobs, I don’t know if they took someone else’s job or not. Unless you are a Native American you or your ancestor came here to take a job.

Lots of people think they have lots of rights, you have the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and of course the bill of rights. You don’t have the right to drive a car or have a job or own a house. The whole idea of being free is in return for being free you have to take care of yourself. The next part of that is the moral thing to do is help take care of those that can’t take care of themselves. People helping people is much better than tax me take my money and then the government deciding who needs help and who doesn’t. If that’s the system you like there are plenty of socialist countries you can go live in. That wasn’t the system designed in the constitution and the system that did more in 200 years than the whole history of mankind did before it.
 
frodo said:
if you wish to come here, LEGALLY and work I have no problem competing with you.

then it is mano e mano may the best man win.

but, if you are illegal, willing to work slave wages and slave hours

I just as soon turn you in or kick your butt back over the border

as far as better looking, i dont care what you look like as long as you can do the work..first time she/you bat them eyes , expecting special treatment, your gone
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That wasn't the question.
It was your job for half the wages. The man is equall to you except you have the job he wants.
 
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