Re-route downspouts from upper to lower gutter

[kdrymer]

Hello - We are looking to re-route our upper roof's gutter onto our lower roof's gutter with downspouting. Currently the upper gutter dumps water through its outlet directly onto the roof below and this is causing some wear on the asphalt shingles, so we are looking to install down spouting that will carry the water to the lower gutter.

Below is a picture from the side of what this currently looks like for your perspective, you can see the water exiting on the right-hand side of the gutter:


View from the front:



I would like to remove the small vertical downspout piece, and install a B style 45-degree elbow (turned toward the house siding, then run a small section of downspout pipe toward the siding. From here I would use an A-style 90-degree elbow (turned on its side) directed down. Another section of downspout pipe would run downward parallel with and secured to siding (same angle as the roof) until it gets to the front corner. At the front corner I would have another A style 90 degree elbow (turned on its side again) to make another turn. Below this there would be one final section of downspout pipe that would run down (parallel with stone). This would then connect to a B style 45-degree elbow directly into the lower gutter.

Below are pictures of what I hopefully described correctly above:





We are looking for any feedback and/or concerns with this approach. Thank you in advance!

 

[bud16415]

Modern rooflines you have to love them. That little short gutter at the end is seeing a lot of water even if it was just the lower roofs. I would do exactly as you have sketched with the exception maybe of not dumping it into the little gutter and just make a new run all the way to the ground.



I guess you can make that call as right now the whole deal is going to the short gutter. When you get a hard rain does it overflow?

 

[kdrymer]

@bud16415 the lower gutter has been handling the volume of water without issue, however the roof area directly underneath where the higher gutter discharges is getting worn down from the concentrated water hitting it, so to avoid further damage I thought it would be better to divert this water through this additional downspout.

I have the downspouts connected to drain pipe buried 8 feet down that runs along the bottom of the basement wall so making an additional entry would be more difficult.

I'm concerned that I have the correct style of elbow pieces to accomplish this and if there is any other way of running it that may look a little more aesthetic. Also - Any ideas on how to secure the final elbow going into the lower gutter? I'm worried with high winds it may move around.

 

[bud16415]

If it is taking the load then as you show is fine. pouring it out on the roof I agree is no good. As you know there are 45s-90s bent to suit both direction and straight to cut to length. attaching the new work to the siding should be straight forward with the strapping type clamps. Attaching to the stone might be trickier. the last piece I would keep away from the bottom of the short gutter by about a inch or two. That should work for not splashing out but not cause a clog point.

I'm not a pro just a homeowner DIY guy. Our roofing and gutter pro passed away not to long ago as he handled all the roofing questions that came along. We all are missing him. Other members should come along and put in their 2 cents.

 

[kdrymer]

@bud16415 thanks again for the feedback! If anyone else has any feedback I would appreciate it...

 

[kdrymer]

@bud16415 or anyone else, I had a contractor finally come out and tell me he thought I have too many turns with this layout, particularly in the beginning and that it would be susceptible to freezing. Do you think having the B elbow at the (upper) gutter drop, along with a short straight piece and then a 90-degree A elbow turned on it's side will cause an issue with slowing down the water flow significantly? I don't see how this would be an issue, granted it has enough pitch.

He proposed not securing along the wall (Vinyl side) and coming down straight on the roof and secure a bracket that would hold the downspout to the roof. I am not a fan of drilling into the roof if I can avoid it, and thus wanted to employ the method above first but now I am having some doubts...

EDIT: I thought about it more, why couldnt you just change the angle that the B elbow comes off the gutter drop, so that instead of being 90 degrees to the siding wall, you come off the drop at a 45 degree angle, along with a straight piece that would then meet up the wall (at a slightly lower spot down the wall, and then a 45 A elbow on it's side to then finish the turn to run parallel down the wall. Here is a rough illustration in blue below...

 

[Snoonyb]

Were it I, I would rotate the drop outlet so that you have 2 45's, instead of the 90.

 

[kdrymer]

@Snoonyb I think you read my mind, I edited my post above. Is that what you are talking about?

 

[Snoonyb]

@Snoonyb I think you read my mind, I edited my post above. Is that what you are talking about?

Ticket to ride.

 

[kdrymer]

Ticket to ride.

If the current gutter drop outlet is rectangular or oval in shape, will that still allow the elbow connected to it to be mounted rotated? I'm concerned the outlet dimensions could be too wide to allow me to rotate the elbow to an angle from where it would normally be lined up with the shape of the outlet...

 

[Snoonyb]

There are occasion that you need to do some entrepreneurial modifications. This would be one. Ie, a 2x3 is cut and bent into a 45 and mounted so that the 3" is horizontal.

 

[kdrymer]

There are occasion that you need to do some entrepreneurial modifications. This would be one. Ie, a 2x3 is cut and bent into a 45 and mounted so that the 3" is horizontal.

@Snoonyb Just to be clear, your suggesting I essentially twist one end of the 2x3 elbow 45 degrees (reform the end so it's offset 45 degrees) so that when it is secured to the drop outlet the other end will be out 45 degrees to the wall behind it? I've drawn a crude illustration of this...



Or are you suggesting coming straight toward the wall from a B elbow at the drop and then replace the 90 degree elbow at the wall with 2- 45 degree elbows with a small straight piece in between, to make it more of a long 90-degree turn?

 

[Snoonyb]

Actually you rotate the drop outlet, in the gutter so that it's at a 45. I know you'll need the fashion a plate, slightly trim the drop outlet recut the hole, seal, then insert the drop outlet.

I've also reformed and cut that 1st 45 to fit the drop outlet and altered the 45 to something closer to a 22-1/2 to lower the 2x3 placement for the down slope.

Actually, aesthetically, the simplest is to leave the drop outlet, reform the short drop to accept the 1st 45 and alter that 45 to something of a less angle.

 

[PJB12]

About 30 years ago, I did almost exactly what you propose in the lowest photo of your first post (the one with the text boxes). It works fine and the lower gutter handles the water very well in hard rains.

Ours is a little different. The downspout is at the end closest to the lower gutter and the roofs are perpendicular. The upper downspout goes down the wall, then jogs into the lower gutter. I put an elbow turning down into the lower downspout to hold it in place. It's not blocking water flow because it is at the beginning of the run.

I didn't want to attach the downspout to the bottom gutter so I could pull it out for cleaning leaves. Instead, I made a little tray from coil stock that the lower elbow rests upon.

Paul

 

[kdrymer]

Actually you rotate the drop outlet, in the gutter so that it's at a 45. I know you'll need the fashion a plate, slightly trim the drop outlet recut the hole, seal, then insert the drop outlet.

I've also reformed and cut that 1st 45 to fit the drop outlet and altered the 45 to something closer to a 22-1/2 to lower the 2x3 placement for the down slope.

Actually, aesthetically, the simplest is to leave the drop outlet, reform the short drop to accept the 1st 45 and alter that 45 to something of a less angle.

Ok I was hoping to avoid changing the existing drop outlet at all and leave it alone...

 

[kdrymer]

About 30 years ago, I did almost exactly what you propose in the lowest photo of your first post (the one with the text boxes). It works fine and the lower gutter handles the water very well in hard rains.

Ours is a little different. The downspout is at the end closest to the lower gutter and the roofs are perpendicular. The upper downspout goes down the wall, then jogs into the lower gutter. I put an elbow turning down into the lower downspout to hold it in place. It's not blocking water flow because it is at the beginning of the run.

I didn't want to attach the downspout to the bottom gutter so I could pull it out for cleaning leaves. Instead, I made a little tray from coil stock that the lower elbow rests upon.

Paul

Thanks for the feedback Paul. Do you see any issues with the following approach?

Install a B style elbow off the existing upper gutter's drop outlet (angled toward the house wall), then a short piece of straight 2x3 downspout pitched downward, then have 2 - 45 degree elbows with a short piece in between to complete the 90 degree turn in a longer sweep, then run straight 2x3 down the wall (strapped to siding), and then have another set of 2- 45 degree A style elbows (on their sides) (to make the 90 degree turn around front stone wall), and then a standard 70 degree elbow dumping into the lower gutter.

 

[PJB12]

Thanks for the feedback Paul. Do you see any issues with the following approach?

Install a B style elbow off the existing upper gutter's drop outlet (angled toward the house wall), then a short piece of straight 2x3 downspout pitched downward, then have 2 - 45 degree elbows with a short piece in between to complete the 90 degree turn in a longer sweep, then run straight 2x3 down the wall (strapped to siding), and then have another set of 2- 45 degree A style elbows (on their sides) (to make the 90 degree turn around front stone wall), and then a standard 70 degree elbow dumping into the lower gutter.

I don't think the water will mind at all. Maybe in winter the spout will freeze sooner because the melt will go down somewhat slower. I doubt it will create problems. (I'm not a gutter person, just someone with a house with lots of downspout challenges.)

If you have leaves , seeds or evergreen needles, perhaps strategically pick a few connections to not have rivets or screws so that you can disassemble easily to remove the leaves stuck in the bends.

When strapping to the wall, I suggest an elastomeric caulk be shot into the screw hole before the screw goes in. You'll get a good seal against moisture. PPG Top Gun 300xi is a very good one and lasts forever. Big Stretch is also a good one, but double the price of 300xi & runnier.

I have permanent stains on the walls from the aluminum spout straps that odxidized. Possibly this is overkill, but maybe a liner between the strap and wall is a good idea. Shower Pan liner comes to mine. Or, maybe leave the strap a bit loose? (Just guessing)

 

[kdrymer]

I don't think the water will mind at all. Maybe in winter the spout will freeze sooner because the melt will go down somewhat slower. I doubt it will create problems. (I'm not a gutter person, just someone with a house with lots of downspout challenges.)

If you have leaves , seeds or evergreen needles, perhaps strategically pick a few connections to not have rivets or screws so that you can disassemble easily to remove the leaves stuck in the bends.

When strapping to the wall, I suggest an elastomeric caulk be shot into the screw hole before the screw goes in. You'll get a good seal against moisture. PPG Top Gun 300xi is a very good one and lasts forever. Big Stretch is also a good one, but double the price of 300xi & runnier.

I have permanent stains on the walls from the aluminum spout straps that odxidized. Possibly this is overkill, but maybe a liner between the strap and wall is a good idea. Shower Pan liner comes to mine. Or, maybe leave the strap a bit loose? (Just guessing)

@PJB12 you just used downspout straps similar to the below to wrap around the downspout and fasten the ends to the wall (through the siding)?

I can't use the standard clip type brackets that mount to the side of the downspout (for vertical orientation), as this downspout will be running closer to horizontal with the roof line and the fastener on the lower side would become a leak point. That is a good idea with the caulk!

Thankfully I have no trees at all anywhere near the house so debris should not be an issue. We're in Northeast PA so we definitely get cold temperatures in the Winter, so I'm not sure what (if any) affect freezing may have as you mentioned.

 

[PJB12]

@PJB12 you just used downspout straps similar to the below to wrap around the downspout and fasten the ends to the wall (through the siding)?
View attachment 31797

I used straps like the ones you show, but I didn't wrap around the downspout.

I laid it across the face and pushed it to the sides, then to the wall. (A photo is attached.)


The only difference that I did from the photo is that, for tall downspouts, I put a pop rivet through the strap on each side of the downspout to help hold it up. I drilled first, then shot caulk in the hole, then pop riveted. (Probably this was over-kill and unnecessary. What do i know?)

Paul

 

[kdrymer]

I used straps like the ones you show, but I didn't wrap around the downspout.

I laid it across the face and pushed it to the sides, then to the wall. (A photo is attached.)


The only difference that I did from the photo is that, for tall downspouts, I put a pop rivet through the strap on each side of the downspout to help hold it up. I drilled first, then shot caulk in the hole, then pop riveted. (Probably this was over-kill and unnecessary. What do i know?)

Paul

@PJB12 Thanks for the picture. That was the same way I was envisioning mounting the strap, only my downspout would be oriented more horizontally to match the roof plane (vs. vertical as pictured) so I don't think I would want to put a fastener through one side (closest to the roof) of it as it could leak.