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Hasn't climate change been around for millions of years? Sure explains the ice age
 
slownsteady said:
Yes it has. But this one will affect us.
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The first time I remember climate change I was one year old and Erie got 4 ft of snow over night on my birthday. They called in the National Guard and the city came to a stand still. The year before when I was born the weather was mild. But mostly I remember as a kid warm summers and winters with lots of snow kind of like what we have had the last few years. There for a while it was mild winters and cool rainy summers. So I have to agree at least in my life the climate has always been changing.

Well even before that I remember them telling me in grade school that the great lakes were dug out by giant glaciers but they are still digging up dinosaur fossils that were under what the glaciers uncovered so way back I’m assuming it was pretty tropical here. So I’m pretty sure there were no people here then so I guess something else caused that change.

Frodo is a believer now because he is experiencing climate change first hand now and his climate has changed from last year this time. Up here we get more used to climate change as it happens a couple times a week here. A week ago it was 60 and now it is zero.

Going from 60 to zero sure affected me this week.
 
what is the demision of a 2x4 ? 1 5/8 x 3 5/8 or 1 1/2 x 3 1/2 ?
 
bud16415 said:
The first time I remember climate change I was one year old and Erie got 4 ft of snow over night on my birthday. They called in the National Guard and the city came to a stand still. The year before when I was born the weather was mild. But mostly I remember as a kid warm summers and winters with lots of snow kind of like what we have had the last few years. There for a while it was mild winters and cool rainy summers. So I have to agree at least in my life the climate has always been changing.

Well even before that I remember them telling me in grade school that the great lakes were dug out by giant glaciers but they are still digging up dinosaur fossils that were under what the glaciers uncovered so way back I’m assuming it was pretty tropical here. So I’m pretty sure there were no people here then so I guess something else caused that change.

Frodo is a believer now because he is experiencing climate change first hand now and his climate has changed from last year this time. Up here we get more used to climate change as it happens a couple times a week here. A week ago it was 60 and now it is zero.

Going from 60 to zero sure affected me this week.
Click to expand...
Gee, you're right. Today is colder than yesterday, so the world must be getting colder.

I don't mean to be so sarcastic (well, maybe just a little), but your lifetime and mine are just specks of dust in the lifetime of this planet. And our recorded history of weather is just as short. But we have eyes and ears all over the world now, and the evidence is clear.
But, as I said in the post that started this, whether you believe that the problem is man-made or not, we are going to have to deal with this. Dislocation, disruption of lifestyle and the economy, etc. can only be shrugged off for a little while. I don't mean bad stuff will necessarily happen tomorrow, but you may well see major changes in your lifetime.

Actually, my response to Frodo started simply because I wanted to note that "global warming" was an unfortunate phrase.
 
i do not know about global warming...i do not believe all the hype

this old world has been changing weather in the extreme long before we ever showed up

ask the frozen mastadons.


last year we had no winter, winter before that we had snow, cold as hell

couple years before that we had ice storms. no power for a week
 
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we cant change the weather, no matter how we try, this old girl will do as she pleases, as you said we are but a speck in time
this planet has changed from frozen to boiling and back more than one time and will do it again.
no amount of laws or taxes will change that fact.

but what does chap my *** is the idiots trying to stop the people of Alaska from burning wood to heat themselves as they fly in on a plane that just left a bigger foot print than 100 homes
 
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slownsteady said:
So it all boils down to money and individual freedom?
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it boils down to nothing, you can not change what this planet is doing
she will do as she pleases.
it is not because of us or what we are doing.
the weather changes, thats what it does.
just because it is colder this year does not mean we are killing the earth,
it means, it is colder this year.
 
Much as the sun goes through thermal cycles that effect our climates. Global warming has changed to climate change when it didn't fit the profile that AlGore was putting out there. What is it? Colder or hotter?

Keep your mind open to all the arguments.

http://www.aninconsistenttruth.com/
 
it is supposed to be hotter and all the ice burgs are melting the polar bears are dying and seals are swimming in circles screaming
wtf tf wtf wtf wtf

but...it is freezing and the seals are singing

feel like making love!!! polar bears are doing what polar bears do. being by polar
 
We have to accept we have very little control over mother nature. If a good size asteroid lines up right (and there are billions of them) we will have major climate change.

I don’t dispute climate change or there may be impact to civilization as we know it. What I dispute is people using it or the fear of it as a tool to push their agendas, non related to the welfare of the civilization. That is what is going on. If we truly believe in this country that some of this is man made and we also feel we are a nation not of war mongers willing to impose change by force of power over others, we would use what we can and tell countries like India, Mexico, China…. And the multinational companies behind what is being done that enough is enough. We will not trade with you at all until you clean up your act and play by our rules. We as a nation wouldn’t say we are going to lead by example because no one is following. If the economics isn’t enough then force would be needed. Of course we would hurt our standard of living and really ruin the standard of living of the offending countries that are trying so hard to raise theirs. Trump isn’t even in office yet and the Mexican are screaming with fear of the Ford plan not coming on line it is a case of 1000 jobs for them or for us. The 1000 jobs here will be watched over by a many government agencies protecting the environment of the whole world. In Mexico not so much. I have witnessed this first hand. Do we lift the well-being of the poor Mexican at the cost of the environment or do we lift our well-being and protect the environment. We might be going back to the days of the working man having two pairs of shoes and two pairs of pants and 4 shirts. Albeit they would be better quality most likely. We will be living in a 900 square foot house with a family of 6 and air conditioning won’t be affordable. Good will be more expensive so we will have less.

The facts are that we have all but killed coal in this country to “save the world” and we were burning it in a quite clean highly regulated manner. China for the last 10 years has brought a new coal fired power plant on line every week. The pollution is so bad people go on vacation just to breathe or send their families away to breathe. Not to mention how much heat all that smog traps into the earth if you want to worry about the health of the planet rather than the health of the people. India is doing the exact same thing. We are obsessed with making a feel good electric car that isn’t polluting until you ask the question where did the electric come from.

Being able to know what is made up and what is real is where we disagree. A simple math problem always brings me back to reality. Divide the land mass of the USA by the population. Or divide the land mass of the world by the population of the world to get a feeling of how insignificant we really are.
 
bud16415 said:
We have to accept we have very little control over mother nature. If a good size asteroid lines up right (and there are billions of them) we will have major climate change.

I don’t dispute climate change or there may be impact to civilization as we know it. What I dispute is people using it or the fear of it as a tool to push their agendas, non related to the welfare of the civilization. That is what is going on. If we truly believe in this country that some of this is man made and we also feel we are a nation not of war mongers willing to impose change by force of power over others, we would use what we can and tell countries like India, Mexico, China…. And the multinational companies behind what is being done that enough is enough. We will not trade with you at all until you clean up your act and play by our rules. We as a nation wouldn’t say we are going to lead by example because no one is following. If the economics isn’t enough then force would be needed. Of course we would hurt our standard of living and really ruin the standard of living of the offending countries that are trying so hard to raise theirs. Trump isn’t even in office yet and the Mexican are screaming with fear of the Ford plan not coming on line it is a case of 1000 jobs for them or for us. The 1000 jobs here will be watched over by a many government agencies protecting the environment of the whole world. In Mexico not so much. I have witnessed this first hand. Do we lift the well-being of the poor Mexican at the cost of the environment or do we lift our well-being and protect the environment. We might be going back to the days of the working man having two pairs of shoes and two pairs of pants and 4 shirts. Albeit they would be better quality most likely. We will be living in a 900 square foot house with a family of 6 and air conditioning won’t be affordable. Good will be more expensive so we will have less.

The facts are that we have all but killed coal in this country to “save the world” and we were burning it in a quite clean highly regulated manner. China for the last 10 years has brought a new coal fired power plant on line every week. The pollution is so bad people go on vacation just to breathe or send their families away to breathe. Not to mention how much heat all that smog traps into the earth if you want to worry about the health of the planet rather than the health of the people. India is doing the exact same thing. We are obsessed with making a feel good electric car that isn’t polluting until you ask the question where did the electric come from.

Being able to know what is made up and what is real is where we disagree. A simple math problem always brings me back to reality. Divide the land mass of the USA by the population. Or divide the land mass of the world by the population of the world to get a feeling of how insignificant we really are.
Click to expand...

agree with you
 
bud16415 said:
We have to accept we have very little control over mother nature. If a good size asteroid lines up right (and there are billions of them) we will have major climate change.

I don’t dispute climate change or there may be impact to civilization as we know it. What I dispute is people using it or the fear of it as a tool to push their agendas, non related to the welfare of the civilization. That is what is going on. If we truly believe in this country that some of this is man made and we also feel we are a nation not of war mongers willing to impose change by force of power over others, we would use what we can and tell countries like India, Mexico, China…. And the multinational companies behind what is being done that enough is enough. We will not trade with you at all until you clean up your act and play by our rules. We as a nation wouldn’t say we are going to lead by example because no one is following. If the economics isn’t enough then force would be needed. Of course we would hurt our standard of living and really ruin the standard of living of the offending countries that are trying so hard to raise theirs. Trump isn’t even in office yet and the Mexican are screaming with fear of the Ford plan not coming on line it is a case of 1000 jobs for them or for us. The 1000 jobs here will be watched over by a many government agencies protecting the environment of the whole world. In Mexico not so much. I have witnessed this first hand. Do we lift the well-being of the poor Mexican at the cost of the environment or do we lift our well-being and protect the environment. We might be going back to the days of the working man having two pairs of shoes and two pairs of pants and 4 shirts. Albeit they would be better quality most likely. We will be living in a 900 square foot house with a family of 6 and air conditioning won’t be affordable. Good will be more expensive so we will have less.

The facts are that we have all but killed coal in this country to “save the world” and we were burning it in a quite clean highly regulated manner. China for the last 10 years has brought a new coal fired power plant on line every week. The pollution is so bad people go on vacation just to breathe or send their families away to breathe. Not to mention how much heat all that smog traps into the earth if you want to worry about the health of the planet rather than the health of the people. India is doing the exact same thing. We are obsessed with making a feel good electric car that isn’t polluting until you ask the question where did the electric come from.

Being able to know what is made up and what is real is where we disagree. A simple math problem always brings me back to reality. Divide the land mass of the USA by the population. Or divide the land mass of the world by the population of the world to get a feeling of how insignificant we really are.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%
 
If you are driving down the highway and you see an unavoidable accident up ahead ( accident, landslide, tornado, let's not get caught up in the example), do you slow down? Or do you think "well, it's unavoidable and I'm gonna die anyway so I might as well hammer down and hit that thing hard!" I bet you would do your best to avoid being killed.

Oh why bother. As long as you see this as a political thing I'm not going to get anywhere.
 
slownsteady said:
If you are driving down the highway and you see an unavoidable accident up ahead ( accident, landslide, tornado, let's not get caught up in the example), do you slow down? Or do you think "well, it's unavoidable and I'm gonna die anyway so I might as well hammer down and hit that thing hard!" I bet you would do your best to avoid being killed.

Oh why bother. As long as you see this as a political thing I'm not going to get anywhere.
Click to expand...

what are you seeing as unavoidable ?
or rather what are you seeing as avoidable ?

we can not change the weather,
 
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