3 way switch-I think I did something wrong-One switch always has to be "On".

[vyacheslav]

Thanks guys, but I'm thinking maybe I have a defective switch(es) somehow? I hooked up the new switches EXACTLY as the old ones were. Even though the old switches were just that (old), they still had a single black screw by itself on the top right, and two gold/brass screws on either side at the bottom. The only difference is that the old switches did not a a terminal/screw for a grounding wire. Everything else is exactly the same and I hooked them up exactly the same way.

Are we sure that I don't have to break off some sort of tab on the switch? Also, I am just a very basic DIY'er. I don't have any idea what a truth table is, or alligator clips or anything like that. I don't have a voltage meter. I have a few non-contact outlet testers and a outlet tester plug that lights up to show you if it's wired correctly or not. I don't have anything fancy, just very basic stuff.

Could we try maybe dumbing it down so that a very basic DIY'er like myself could understand? At this point, I'm thinking I may just try some new 3-way switches.

Thanks.

 

[afjes_2016]

vyacheslav: Please confirm that this 3 way is a 3 way setup - you can control this light from only two locations, not more than 2 locations.
Please confirm this setup was working prior to changing out the switches with new ones.
Please post pictures of the old switches (the pictures you took before you disconnected them) and the new switches. Yes, it is possible that one of the new 3 way switches is defective but unlikely if they are new. When posting pictures of the new switches be sure the breaker is off first then pull the switches out of the box WITHOUT removing any of the wires. We need to see how the wires go into the box from the switches and how many wires are in the boxes.
If you are going to do any electrical in your home, even basic things it would be advisable for you to purchase a meter. They are inexpensive and will save you time in the long run once you learn how to use it. I would suggest that you purchase an analogue meter and not a digital meter. Reason is that the digital meter may pick up what we call phantom voltage in certain situations which may confuse you whereas an analogue meter will help determine this.
A proximity pen is only good to tell if there is power existing in a box that you are about to work in. They can be misleading at times and just cause you more work.

Are we sure that I don't have to break off some sort of tab on the switch?

No, a tab that you refer to is usually only on a receptacle/outlet; in this case there would be no tab that you need to break off.

 

[PJB12]

Thanks guys, but I'm thinking maybe I have a defective switch(es) somehow?

Are we sure that I don't have to break off some sort of tab on the switch?

Could we try maybe dumbing it down so that a very basic DIY'er like myself could understand?

Thanks.

Hello Vyacheslav,
Way back in this crowded thread at #32, I suggested maybe a switch is defective. You can get or make an inexpensive continuity meter or try new switches.

Defective switches are not terribly uncommon. Home centers sometimes put items that customers have returned as defective back on the shelf. It can happen by mistake, or if the customer doesn't make it clear that the item is defective. I recently returned a power tool & told the guy it was defective. I wrote "Defective" on the box. While I was at the shelf looking for a replacement, the same guy put my bad one back on the shelf.

There aren't any tabs to break off on a 3-way switch, so no worries there.

You asked for the diagnosis to be dumbed down.
The best I can offer is to get a volt-ohm meter & some alligator clips. (Internet search what those items are if you don't know.) Then identify the wires by using reply #32's step-by-step. Refer to the drawing I attached earlier and to the helpful posts from other members. Despite the bad mouthing, the drawing will help. It's helped many others in the past.

But, if you have more important things to use time than studying this and a better use for spending money than on tools you may never use again (understandable), it may be wise to have an electrician make a service call. It is a very short diagnosis. Do you work where there are maintenance electricians on staff? Many do side jobs at a good rate.

 

[Snoonyb]

"Despite the bad mouthing, the drawing will help."

As previously posted, the drawing, "ASSUMES THAT THE PRIMARY POWER SOURCE AS WELL AS THE LOAD, ARE KNOWN", which are not, in this case, known.

Post #15 provides, a specific, in detail method of determining, both.

 

[PJB12]

Snoonyb, I apologize for any offense to you regarding your statement of disparage regarding my drawing.
But, the reason for your statement that my drawing "assumes that the power source is known..." is a mystery to me.

The drawing is there to give him, and anyone else in who sees it the future, a visual of how the power is routed with three and four way switches. If you know which way the river flows, it's easier to navigate the boat!

 

[Snoonyb]

Snoonyb, I apologize for any offense to you regarding your statement of disparage regarding my drawing.
But, the reason for your statement that my drawing "assumes that the power source is known..." is a mystery to me.

The drawing is there to give him, and anyone else in who sees it the future, a visual of how the power is routed with three and four way switches. If you know which way the river flows, it's easier to navigate the boat!

Again, as I've previously stated, and is now reinforced by your statement, "a visual of how the power is routed", because to know that, you must, have 1st, Identified which conductor, IS, the power source, as well as which conductor, IS, the load, NEITHER IS THE CASE IN THIS INSTANCE.

Therefore, my statement, several times reiterated, that your drawing, "ASSUMES THAT THE PRIMARY POWER SOURCE AS WELL AS THE LOAD, ARE KNOWN", is accurate.

 

[Eddie_T]

A truth table is nothing more than a convenient way of listing observations. It's easy (especially for a novice) to forget what has already been measured. It's also hard to get someone to follow logical troubleshooting steps. The A B column is switch position the other columns are switch terminals. If one has a VOM voltage can be entered if one has a neon tester a 1 or 0 can be entered. Electricians when I was a kid carried amber handled screwdrivers with a neon indicator in the handle. I have a neon indicator with short test leads and it's always in my toolbox whereas a bulky meter is not. If A1 is always hot it's a pretty good indicator that it may be connected to the primary energy source.

A B	A1	A2	A3	B1	B2	B3
1 1
1 0
0 1
0 0

 

[Snoonyb]

However, since neon indicates, only indicate the presents of voltage, with the conductors all connected, it is only a probability, that A, is the primary, however, only, by disconnecting A from the switch, can that be determined, by the absence of an indication of voltage at the other switch terminals, which still leaves the load conductor, undetermined.

 

[Eddie_T]

It's not for you Snoonyb, it's for those willing to learn.

 

[Snoonyb]

See post #15, the exact process.

 

[PJB12]

A truth table is nothing more than a convenient way of listing observations. It's easy (especially for a novice) to forget what has already been measured. It's also hard to get someone to follow logical troubleshooting steps.

Thanks for explaining, Eddie T. I'd never heard the term "Truth Table" before, but used such charts often at work with control systems to keep my mind straight. The chart should be very helpful for the poster's diagnosis.

I know this has nothing to do with the poster's question, but way back in the late 1950's & early 1960's, I'd walk with my father to his class at university and sit in on his lectures. In his Statistical Analysis classes, I remember him explaining charts such as these & how they were used in analysis. He called them "Logikflussdiagramm" (Logic Flow Chart)

Later in life, when he worked as a human factor engineer in transportation & urban analysis, I'd see mountains of such charts on his desk, right next to a fist full of slide rules & napkin notes.

Actually, Archimedes used such charts. He was "pumped" about them. (Sorry, couldn't resist) They kept him from being "screwed" up in his thinking (Again, couldn't resist)

Paul

 

[EricK]

Hi, these are the steps I have taken to fix the same issue you have. Works almost every time. Assuming you do have two three-way switches here's what you can do if one switch needs to be in a particular position (on/off) in order for the other to work. Pull one switch from the wall. Then take the wires and rotate them clockwise changing positions. Then test the switches to see if they are working properly. If that doesn't work. Rotate the wires clockwise one more time. That should do the trick.