A friend spouts nonsense

[Guzzle]

and it provokes me.

What the nonsense is does not matter and IDK if his intention is to provoke.

Is that his problem or my problem for being provoked or both our problems or some other possibility?

Knowing only what you read here, what think you?

 

[bud16415]

I would have to say now it is my problem as well. At least I know how you feel.

 

[Guzzle]

Suppose he says that if you disagree with him then you are a moron?
These people seem to think that if I don't agree with them, I guess on everything, then I am a threat, a threat to their long-held beliefs.

I solve this problem by "hanging up" on this friendship or acquaintance.

if it's a co-worker then I can't hang up.

 

[oldognewtrick]

I've reached a point in life where my give a damn doesn't give a damn what someone thinks about me. If a friend can't respect your viewpoint, they're no friend.

 

[bud16415]

I've reached a point in life where my give a damn doesn't give a damn what someone thinks about me. If a friend can't respect your viewpoint, they're no friend.

I have taken it a step past that as I learned a new term this year. When you don't agree with me I cancel you.

 

[Guzzle]

I've reached a point in life where my give a damn doesn't give a damn what someone thinks about me. If a friend can't respect your viewpoint, they're no friend.

So they only liked you because you agreed with them. Until they didn't.

One option is then for him to try to "convert" you. If he can't, then you & he can't bring up this issue. But he may keep trying.

"my give a damn doesn't give a damn"? That's good!
But, the battery in your give a damn might need recharging.
Now we're getting weird.

 

[billshack]

I can respectful dis agree with all my friends with out losing then . I have many friends there fore many different opinions. I find that at this time covid
every one fuse is very short, just chill out when you can

 

[oldognewtrick]

So they only liked you because you agreed with them. Until they didn't.

One option is then for him to try to "convert" you. If he can't, then you & he can't bring up this issue. But he may keep trying.

"my give a damn doesn't give a damn"? That's good!
But, the battery in your give a damn might need recharging.
Now we're getting weird.

No, you don't understand my comment. I don't need recharging, I've realized you can't please everyone and I've given up on the premise that I need to. Like me, don't like me, I'm ok with that. I have plenty of friends that I don't agree with on every single issue. I take them for what, who they are. We're still friends. The ones who obsess with view points and their way or the highway I tend to avoid. It's all good.

 

[Eddie_T]

I have a friend that rants about people that haven't taken COVID vaccination and the current rise in cases. I told him early on why I as a pro-lifer refused it. I don't know if he's trying to agitate or not but I just let it ride.

 

[BuzzLOL]

My buddy doesn't have internet and I can tell from what he says he only gets FAKE NEWS LIES from his TV...

 

[ekrig]

Like @oldognewtrick I've given up on the premise of even attempting to please or to agree with friends or colleagues. I start with the premise of mutual respect: I respect them and their views and will do so as long as they reciprocate. It is totally fine to disagree and even have pointed discussions on the topics, but disrespect is not ok.

Feeling provoked because you disagree with your friend is normal. The question you need to ask yourself is whether that is because of his position on the topic or his attitude toward you. If the former, then you need to focus on the "educational" exchange between friends and calm down. If the latter, then check if that disrespect and if they are a friend worth keeping/staying around.

I've found over the years, and in most topics that I tend to disagree with people, that I know more about their position than them and they are usually largely ignorant about the opposing (typically mine) view. Being able to see both sides make me clear eyed. So, try to calmly (easier said than done sometimes) inform them of both sides. If they latch on to information on their side and simply ignore whenever you say something about your view then they are too closed-minded and a lost case on this topic. Forget about the topic and move on with the friendship if you can.

 

[Guzzle]

Like @oldognewtrick I've given up on the premise of even attempting to please or to agree with friends or colleagues. I start with the premise of mutual respect: I respect them and their views and will do so as long as they reciprocate. It is totally fine to disagree and even have pointed discussions on the topics, but disrespect is not ok.

Feeling provoked because you disagree with your friend is normal. The question you need to ask yourself is whether that is because of his position on the topic or his attitude toward you. If the former, then you need to focus on the "educational" exchange between friends and calm down. If the latter, then check if that disrespect and if they are a friend worth keeping/staying around.

I've found over the years, and in most topics that I tend to disagree with people, that I know more about their position than them and they are usually largely ignorant about the opposing (typically mine) view. Being able to see both sides make me clear eyed. So, try to calmly (easier said than done sometimes) inform them of both sides. If they latch on to information on their side and simply ignore whenever you say something about your view then they are too closed-minded and a lost case on this topic. Forget about the topic and move on with the friendship if you can.

This is quite a reply.
I think my "adversary/friend" has a position & he assumes I will go for it, so then he has a friend. Until I show otherwise.

Some people seem to think that if they admit to a single false belief, everything else they believed their whole lives will fall, like dominoes, and that will be awful.

Most of what I was told as a kid was nonsense & I'm still finding out new lies & false statements (there is a difference) that I was told & am being told.
No shame if I was conned by expert con artists & people who are supposed to be looking out for me.

One of there books Ms. Vos Savant wrote said the worst source of info was TV/radio & the best was books. The pulpit & every other source was in between.

 

[bud16415]

We live in a culture today that is for the most part not individual-think it is groupthink. Most people by nature are non confrontational and when the groupthink also is based on a cancel culture people look around for the path of least resistance to get thru life.



It is a classic situation of a principal I learned close to 40 years ago in course at work called The Abilene Paradox. Even though they taught me this principal I worked in a company that was completely full of the paradox till the day I retired. There is much written on the idea of groupthink and if you search on Abilene Paradox you can read more.



At one point it was feared this paradox could take over and destroy a business today I’m afraid it could destroy a country. I don’t think it is naturally occurring but being intentionally put in play. Ether way it can be a devastating thing.



If you have 25 minutes to kill here is an old video that’s a bit humorist but points out the way it works.



There are not a whole lot of freethinkers left even though we all think we are freethinkers.

 

[Guzzle]

I inherited a project X from a key employee of the company.

The goal was 20 & it would only work to 18, so I set up a meeting with the company president to tell him.

In the meeting was a consultant.
Every time I tried to say something about the performance of the project, the consultant said, “Every thing will be alright.” He might have said this three times while the president never said a word. It was like a spell he was casting, like holding up a crucifix to a vampire.

Meeting over.

 

[ekrig]

I had watched that movie before but it was great to watch it again. Thanks @bud16415. I think that the Abilene paradox does indeed explain the behavior of a significant (growing?) percentage of the people but I think that it is only one of the factors at play. Confirmation and anchoring biases as well as narcissism and overconfidence are very likely also among the well known social psychology factors at play. The books by Dan Ariely, such as "Predictably Irrational", are great, accessible reads on these things. Maybe if everyone learned a bit on that topic, we'd all learn to look out for the tricks our own brains play on us.

I agree that it is indeed a cultural thing but it is also not entirely new nor restricted to one of the political sides. This unapologetic, never admit to one's mistakes, or even the subtle points attitude has been many years in the making...

Anyone who is set on their views in a black-and-white way, rather than being able to articulate about the subtle points and counterpoints on any controversial topic is an ignorant fool. Personally I tend to try to stay away from such people, but unfortunately there seem to be a growing number of them and they can be very loud. What's worse, these are sometimes your colleagues and one need still needs to maintain a reasonable work relationship...

And don't even get me started on those that say "because it is science", because I bet they don't have the slightest idea of what science really is about.