Bedroom STILL Hot At Night (Even With Vornado)

[MisterSports]

Bought a Vornado 660 Large Room Air Circulator for a 26 x 13 bedroom because my bedroom is consistently 2-4 degrees warmer than the rest of the house. It also faces the west so it receives a lot of day sun. I have moved the Vornado to three different spots around the bedroom and the temperature in the room doesn't change and it stays at 72-74 while the rest of the house is at 69-72. Day or night, but night is much worse. It's as if the temperature never goes below 72 no matter what! and we have a 4 year old central AC system with two vents in the room!

Am I doing something wrong with the Vornado positioning? Should I buy something else instead? I figured an air circulator was a better option than a fan since I have poor air circulation in that room (one small window and sliding Anderson patio doors), but still no change!

This is maddening! What can I do to lower the temperature in my bedroom at night???

 

[havasu]

The only thing a circulator does in the summer is mix the hot air near the ceiling with the cooler air by the floor. Try it for yourself. Put your hand next to the ceiling and I'm sure it is much hotter than the cold air by the floor. Remember, hot air rises, and cold air falls.

 

[Snoonyb]

There are several things to try.
Install black draperies, set a fan blowing from a cool hall, into the hot room, set a fan exhausting hot air to the exterior and apply a reflective coating to the exterior.

 

[MisterSports]

The only thing a circulator does in the summer is mix the hot air near the ceiling with the cooler air by the floor. Try it for yourself. Put your hand next to the ceiling and I'm sure it is much hotter than the cold air by the floor. Remember, hot air rises, and cold air falls.

Vornado swears i can set my thermostat at 77 and it will feel like 72. I truly do not see it happening. Some people sweat they dont use AC and Vornado helps. Not for me. My temperature stays the same.

 

[MisterSports]

There are several things to try.
Install black draperies, set a fan blowing from a cool hall, into the hot room, set a fan exhausting hot air to the exterior and apply a reflective coating to the exterior.

The hallway where I can do this is where the 20x20 return is.....u think putting a fan there will work? As for setting a fan exhausting hot air to the exterioe and applying a reflective coating? What do you mean? I have siding.

 

[Snoonyb]

The hallway where I can do this is where the 20x20 return is.....u think putting a fan there will work? As for setting a fan exhausting hot air to the exterioe and applying a reflective coating? What do you mean? I have siding.

It then becomes a proximity issue, but the point is to flood the hot room with cooler air. sidings are generally flat so any high-gloss clear coating should assist, and for exhausting, just bunch the heavy black drapes to fit around, also some plexiglass will blank the rest of the opening, above the fan.

 

[havasu]

Many forget how much the heat from an attic can radiate thru a ceiling and into a room. Before I did anything, I would make sure you have vents in your soffit and a way for that hot air to escape from your attic.

 

[Steve123]

Vornado swears i can set my thermostat at 77 and it will feel like 72. I truly do not see it happening.

Of course you don't see a temperature change.

Actually, it heats the air. The 660 uses 55 Watts per their specs (I expect that would be when running at max). That is about 3 coffee cup warmers.

However, moving air will help sweat evaporate off your skin, so you should "feel" cooler just like any fan.

Since you already have central AC, easiest couple of methods is to adjust the dampers on the registers so more air flow to that bedroom. Or, on the thermostat, change fan setting from "auto" to "on" -- that will have the fan running continuously and will help in keeping all of the house at an equal temperature. Running the fan continuous decreases the AC's ability to dehumidify, but if AC is on a lot, you should still have decent dehumidification.

If you have a west facing window, you are getting a lot of heat through it. An awning will help in blocking a lot of that heat.

 

[Steve123]

Install black draperies

Black????
Black will absorb more heat. White will reflect more light back outdoors. But better yet would be to block/reflect at outside, not inside.
For the OP, on a hot sunny day, in late afternoon, put your hand on the glass to feel the temperature --- that is why an awning or blocking from the outside is effective.

set a fan exhausting hot air to the exterior

For every cubic foot of indoor air that you push to the outdoors, another cubic foot of outdoor air will be pulled into the house. Only works on a cool night, but if it is indeed cool outside, a window fan does indeed cool the house at much less cost than using AC. However, the outdoor air will probably be more humid than your conditioned air.

 

[PJB12]

If you have access, radiant barrier in the attic above the room will help- A Lot!

Despite stuff found online, you do not have to live in a hot climate to benefit. We live in Michigan and our heating and cooling bills both dropped dramatically after installing radiant barrier. It paid for itself in about 3 months of heating.

I learned a lot about radiant energy, reflectivity and emmissivity from the chairman of ASTM's radiant energy committee. It is a very interesting subject.

CAUTION!!! BORING SCIENCE STUFF AHEAD....
Temperature Change Example:
I was installing it in an attic over a bedroom in my house.
Outside, temperature was in the high 80's-F. The sun was on the roof.
In the bedroom the wall thermostat's thermometer was "pegged" over its maximum of 90-F
Attic temperature was over the thermometer maximum of 120-F

When only half of the room was done, I took a break. Glancing at the thermostat's dial, it showed the room dropped to 81-F. When I got done with the job, it was in the low 90's-F outside, with sun on the roof, but the room's stat showed 74-F- same as the rest of the house.

Gap Is Critical:
If there is a 19mm or larger gap on one side (or both) pure aluminum reflects 97% of the radiant energy received on the gap side. It also switches roles because the non-gap side becomes a low emitter that allows only 3% to escape.

Works Summer & Winter:
It's hard to explain, but picture it laid on the insulation that is on the bedroom ceiling. In summer, the foil will reflect 97% of the sun's energy back away from the bedroom ceiling. In winter, the heat will go through the ceiling & into the insulation batts. The aluminum will stop all but 3% of that heat from escaping to the attic. Without it, eventually 100% of the bedroom heat will escape. When the rooms cools, the stored heat in the ceiling & mass insulation will radiate back into the room.

You can lay perforated aluminum radiant barrier over the existing insulation or staple it to the bottom of the rafters, leaving a gap at the top and bottom for eave-to-ridge vent air flow. You can also staple it to the bottom of the roof deck.

The key to success are:
A) It has to be uncoated, pure aluminum (or silver or gold). Bubble stuff in the hardware is coated.
B) There has to be a 19mm or larger gap on one side or both sides.
It matters not which side the gap is on. If it's laid on the attic floor or across the rafters, 97% of the sun's energy will be
reflected.
C) Use perforated when it lays on something.

Be sure to get it from a reputable dealer. Some poor materials exist. We tested brands at work and the products from AFS-Foil and Attic Foil both were legitimate, easy to work with and inexpensive. Testing both, showed 97% reflectivity. I like the kind with scrim. It's easy to work with.
The people at AtticFoil Com will give you very cheerful advice for product selection and installation. AFS, too.

I hope this is a useful solution so you can get some sleep!
Paul

 

[slownsteady]

I'll ditto on adjusting your dampers in the other rooms. it forces more cool air to the bedroom and will somewhat even out the house. You could also move the thermostat closer to the warm area.

 

[PJB12]

For total temperature control in the room, I wonder if a Mini-Split would be worth your consideration.

If you get one with a reversing valve (heat pump), you have heat and cooling. You also can get multi-zone units to condition more than one room with separate temperature control for each.

Many of the new mini-splits are very do-it-yourself friendly. The components are pre-charged with refrigerant and it's a simple wrench connection. No brazing, vacuum pumps, gauges, nitrogen purges & charge adjustments are needed. I've installed a bunch in commercial grow houses and in offices, labs and production rooms. They really are super quick and easy to install.

SupplyHouse Com usually has many brand choices at better than local supply house prices. Someone told me that grow house suppliers often have very good prices on imports.

 

[havasu]

I recently installed a mini split with a heat pump in my bedroom. I turn off the A/C in the house at night, and flip on the mini split, which costs me dimes a day versus dollars a day for my central A/C system. I love the ability to cool just the room I am in. Also, in the morning, when the air is cool, I open a few doors and windows and suck in the cool air using my Quiet Cool whole house fan.

 

[Spicoli43]

I'm going to investigate the mini splits a lot this Winter.

Vornado swears i can set my thermostat at 77 and it will feel like 72. I truly do not see it happening. Some people sweat they dont use AC and Vornado helps. Not for me. My temperature stays the same.

I just see a gimmick with the Vornado, but I'm skeptical of everything by nature and am not a happy Vornado customer due to their humidifiers, but

"Utilizes Vornado's signature Vortex air circulation to more effectively move air throughout the entire room"

means if it works and does what it says, it has nothing to do with the temperature of the air.

The best cooling I have experienced this season is just getting a bunch of $1.50 white plastic bowls (5 Qt) from Walmart, freezing about 4Qt of water in them and setting them on a DIY table I don't care about in front of a box fan.

Pointed right at Humans or Animals, it's acceptable during the day, and it makes sleeping comfortable.

 

[Spicoli43]

I recently installed a mini split with a heat pump in my bedroom. I turn off the A/C in the house at night, and flip on the mini split, which costs me dimes a day versus dollars a day for my central A/C system. I love the ability to cool just the room I am in. Also, in the morning, when the air is cool, I open a few doors and windows and suck in the cool air using my Quiet Cool whole house fan.

Can you tell me the brand? The Mr. Cool split I ran specs on is 27A, 230V, resulting in wattage of 6210, much more than my Trane XR14 that is 20A, 230V, at 4600 watts.

 

[havasu]

My mini is a Nortek.

 

[havasu]

The Mr Cool, may be DIY friendly, but the preset refrigerant lines are not adjustable, The longer the lines, the less energy ratings you will receive.

My 5 ton central air rums at 27 amps, and uses a 50 amp service breaker. The Nortek runs at 4 amps, with a 20 amp breaker. Both are 240 V.

 

[Spicoli43]

WOW... You're right about pennies... I would run that thing most of the day at barely 11 cents an hour... I don't know about the Mr. Cool being DIY friendly, it's manual is 56 pages... But at 73 cents an hour, that's where my research ends. (Unless Lowe's specs are off, which very well could be, only site I could find the Amps listed)

Nortek... Must...Investigate

Did you do a lot of DD on it before buying?

 

[havasu]

Not really. My buddy owns an A/C company and have purchased 7-8 central A/C units from him. I gave him the latitude to pick the most energy efficient unit, with repair parts access. He has told me currently it is a "dog eat dog" world for A/C installers, and companies sell to installers at different prices to maintain loyalty to a specific brand, regardless of if their units are crap.

 

[PJB12]

Can you tell me the brand? The Mr. Cool split I ran specs on is 27A, 230V, resulting in wattage of 6210, much more than my Trane XR14 that is 20A, 230V, at 4600 watts.

One a mini-split that I remember running a circuit for, the tag showed 26 amps at 230 vac. In reality, in cooling or reversing valve heat mode, it drew 11 amps, if I remember correctly.

The high amp rating on the plate included the back-up resistance heaters and the defrost heater.

The Mr Cool, may be DIY friendly, but the preset refrigerant lines are not adjustable, The longer the lines, the less energy ratings you will receive.

There are brands where you can pick the lineset length from several pre-set lengths, so there is no line loss, which is minimal anyway.

Be careful of Mr Cool. I have been told they contract with the lowest priced manufacturer that year, so in a couple of years you may not be able to get parts because they switched suppliers. I never verified this information, so you may want to check into it. I may have wrong information.

Fijustu. Carrier, LG, Mitsubishi, Bosch, Lennox & UTC Carrier are brands that have a reputation for having parts available for decades. Gree is a Chinese brand that I've heard has good support for parts. I'm sure there are many more.

Paul