Fixing pump/pressure tank system for well- best way?

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It was showing as $190 when I loaded it before, but I just refreshed and now it says $179.

Good questions, 68bucks. There's an FAQ forum for them at Frequently Asked Questions

I do know that currently when I flush the toilet & wash my hands the pulley wheel pump will run for a few minutes afterward even though not that much water was drawn out. I can hear it running from the kitchen window, sliding glass door, and back door. It's very loud. The jet pump isn't nearly as loud- sounds somewhat like my washing machine- a low hum. Other pump has a higher pitched loud sound mixed in. If my FB messenger app wasn't being a pita, I'd load a video where you can hear the pulley wheel pump going.
 
Zannej... if you live anywhere within a 200 mile radius of Southern Nevada, I would love to take a road trip ( even with these gas prices) and see this setup. I’m only an Mechanical Engineer, but have done my share of plumbing repairs and even whole house replacement... I’ve been trying to follow this since the day you first posted the issue, and I still can’t wrap my head around it... sitting here now, I’m not even sure I know what the problem is...
 
@zannej I have never experienced PVC breakage. I used PVC for all other than brass bodied pressure switch/gauge assy. Be sure pressure tank is solidly supported and use PVC slip (glued) fittings where possible as threads are usually where leaks and breakage occur. My ball shut-offs are also slip, replacement would be a little more work but they are now 15-20 years old w/no replacements.
 
Eddie_T said:
@zannej I have never experienced PVC breakage. I used PVC for all other than brass bodied pressure switch/gauge assy. Be sure pressure tank is solidly supported and use PVC slip (glued) fittings where possible as threads are usually where leaks and breakage occur. My ball shut-offs are also slip, replacement would be a little more work but they are now 15-20 years old w/no replacements.
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EDDIE_T... You must not live where it freezes in the winter...
 
I've had a lot of PVC break outside. Some if it from getting brittle from sun exposure (before we found out it needed to be covered) and some from rare freezes (when we first moved in it almost never got below freezing but that has changed in the last few years). Our a-hole horse deliberately broke a bunch of things. He got mad one day that his water trough was empty so he grabbed a PVC pipe with a hose bibb, broke it off, then started swinging it at a goat to beat the goat with it. He also stomped all over the underground lines deliberately to break them (sadly, Dad didn't bury them deep enough as he hadn't anticipated the horse stomping them). He was a smart horse but had a bad temper & was very mischievous. There was also a time I tripped in the shed and fell on the pipes & broke some. That wasn't a fun experience. Broke the pipe coming out of the cistern right after the shutoff. I felt like a total doof.

The main problem I had with the PVC in the well system was not cold but heat and vibrations. The male threaded PVC sort of melted and broke inside the jet pump's inlet. I was told by pump experts that it's not good to have PVC going directly in to the pump. I need to put some sort of anti-vibration pads under it when I do the new setup and both inlet and outlet will be threaded stainless steel.

I went with threaded ball valves so that I can unthread them from any broken stuff that was solvent welded.
 
So have you talked to anyone about getting rid of the compressor for your water. Compressed air is expensive to make from an energy perspective. Is the well bore too small for a submersible or a jet? If there is a sulfur or other dissolved gas issue I can understand using the air to strip it but there might be a better way. Based on all the posts here I think I see how the system works but it sure seems inefficient if I'm understanding it correctly. Two pumps would be better that compressed air.
 
68bucks, Yes, I have tried, but the well system business is scarce these days. There's only one guy who will come out to our are and he said he has no clue how to replace the system. I asked him about upgrades to solenoid valve, more efficient pumping in to cistern, etc & he said he didn't know how to do it. He got grandfathered in to the system bc his father installed and repaired well systems & he was the apprentice. I have tried to find other people, but the refuse to come out here.
 
I managed to upload a short video that has the sound (but not footage) of the pulley wheel pump. The cow piped in at one point. LOL. I was looking for leaks but was having trouble seeing so I used the camera to film.
 
In my state every county has an agricultural extension agent. If your parish has an office they are a pretty good source of information and might have some info on the why of your water system.
 
68bucks said:
So have you talked to anyone about getting rid of the compressor for your water.
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I think submerged pumps need a minimum 4" or 5" well pipe to go down into... and looks like he has 2" pipe...
Before electricity was available in his area, the air compressor my have been driven by a hand crank or gasoline engine... or both at different times... or maybe just a suction hand pump at first...
When I grew up in 1950's we had a hand pump out in the front yard... some of our relatives hand the luxury of a hand pump indoors on the kitchen side board (now called a countertop, but just boards back then)...
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/fd/99/8b/fd998b3f19406b766da0d53611f9515a.jpg
 
BuzzLOL said:
I think submerged pumps need a minimum 4" or 5" well pipe to go down into... and looks like he has 2" pipe..
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I was sort of thinking it could be a small well bore based on that pipe in the pic. I changed the pump in my first house from a jet to a submersible. I believe it need a 4" pipe. A jet will fit a lot smaller though, not sure what the minimum is though.
 
It's definitely around 2". So I don't think anything large could fit in it. Unless it completely breaks down, I'm not going to mess with it.
 
As an update, it seems the pressure tank has blown. The switch was rapid-cycling, the wires had come loose from the switch. The PSI in the tank was 0. I put air in it and the pump rapid cycled and then a pipe came apart, blasted water backwards from the pressure tank and out on to the switch. Replaced the switch, wires are tightened, and put more air back in the pressure tank. Bought a new pressure tank but will need to install it. The doors came off the shed and none of the outlets inside work so can't plug any heaters in there. Roof leaks too. Need to seal the roof better, get the outlets fixed, and put a heater in. We tried hanging blankets and reflectix over the doors but the cows knocked it all down.

I have an antifatigue mat that broke into 3 pieces. I think I will put that under the pump when we go to replace the pressure tank. Will get it raised up a little more, put in some PEX to add more flexibility to stuff, and replace the galvanized steel with stainless steel.

Awhile back I tripped and fell on some of the PVC pipes and they snapped so I had to get them replaced. I don't have the hand strength to operate the pex cinch tool so my friend helped out. A whole section going to multiple areas broke so this is what it looks like now:
The part with clear tape no longer has the tape. It blew apart bc the tape wouldn't hold, but it was a temporary thing to hold the pipes together. The galvanized is on the outlet side of the pump. The pressure gauge is ancient and no longer works. Pipes going into the pump are 1-1/4". I believe the ones coming out are 1" and then transition down to 3/4" and then back up to 1" for the pressure tank and then back to 3/4" for the rest. I believe the black shutoffs are from the broken stuff and are just sitting on the ground.
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elbow going to the pressure tank
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The float switch for the pump kept getting stuck so we had to rig this up to prevent it
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The cover would not fit back on so I need to cover it with something still.
 
My jet pump died after the most recent power outage. The float lever for the switch failed to go down when the water in the cistern got low. I think the combo of that and the power surges may have killed it. So, we are redoing the system..

Right now the electric cables come out of pipe in the ground and runs along side the metal pipe that you see to the right on the last photo of previous post. Those cables go to an indoor junction box and from there cables come out going in different directions. The one that works goes to the float switch. From the float switch it has two branches. One goes to the wheeled pump and the other goes to the pressure switch, which is mounted on the jet pump.

Jet pump is a Goulds J10S shallow well 1HP one that uses 115/230V and can pull a little over 16A max. The other pump is about the same specs -- 1HP and 115/205-230V. I wanted to add a disconnect like we have for the air conditioner but finding the right one was tricky so my friend suggested adding a sub panel. There will be 3 breakers in the panel. Two double 25A and a single 20A. Each of the 25s will run a pump.

This is what the Square D liquid level switch (apparently that is the correct brand/name is for it) should look like. I will need to find the cover for it-- which is most likely in the shed on top of the cistern lid.
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I'm hoping we can put the cover on once the wires are streamlined.
We have a bunch of excess cables running along the center beam:
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Ceiling- path which we need to run the conduit
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Black cable is going along the wall where we plan to put the sub panel.
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View of the cistern from the doorway (doors are broken and can't close). Had the lid propped open to siphon water into buckets when I took this pic. I tucked the tubing into some spare pipe so it wouldn't just dangle.
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This is the stuff that will get replaced. Starting with the elbow on the vertical run of pipe coming out of the cistern, going to the pump (although stainless steel fittings will be kept). The pump itself, the galvanized pipe, etc will be replaced. New pump and stainless steel is replacing the galvanized. New pressure tank with a proper tank tee.
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Removing/replacing everything before this one tee that goes to the pex.
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inlet side plans
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outlet side
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Whole collage of ideas
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Its based off of fittings I already have and I will be able to re-use some of the existing shutoffs. There is no foot valve in the cistern. I tried to get the guy to install it but there was a miscommunication and he no longer responds to calls. Not sure if he went out of business or what.
 
Had to change up some ideas bc I couldn't find some of the fittings and I derped and didn't realize that the 1" sharkbites only work for pex to pex and not pex to pvc so we ended up having to nix the 1" pex runs. I used 1-1/4" conduit elbow to bend the 3/4" pex to make it easier to get it into a loop. It was a bear to get it through until it came out the other end but once it did, it was much easier to handle.

Long story short, friend got everything hooked up and running except for the gfi outlet. Ran out of cable and conduit for that but it's not urgent. Got a leak from where the pipe goes into the cistern but used flex shot spray to slow it enough that its functioning now.

Adjusted the pressure in the pressure tank to the correct psi and was able to flush the toilets. Hooray.
The pressure tank sits higher so it's easier to check pressure on. The jet pump is also higher so the inlet pipe is below the level of the pump (reducing chance of air pockets), and the wiring is cleaned up. I need to go in there and thoroughly clean off the top of the cistern lid.

I want to get some sort of solar powered fan in there to cool it. Eventually I want to build a wood shed around it and take down most of the metal parts, put a non-rusting roof over top, and make it a little larger to allow storage for plumbing supplies. I'd also like to change out the float mechanism some day but that will require more research on what I would need for it. I looked it up in the past but got overwhelmed with the complexity.

I'm hoping to get it insulated and have some sort of door that functions on it. Maybe an outdoor rated exterior barn door or something similar. A lot of the metal on the shed has rusted/corroded away so it will need something sooner or later.

Anyway, I need to get more pics. These were taken before electrical was sorted. Took the smurf tubing (the blue corrugated stuff) and attached it to a weatherproof junction box that got tucked inside a cinderblock for protection.
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We decided that bc it uses pressure and not gravity, that looping the 3/4" pex around kept it out of the way more than looping it horizontally.
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The pipes are obviously still a hot mess and I think the shed needs some Rustoleum sprayed on it. I still need to get in there and clean up all the trash
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Here you can see the conduit elbow on one end of the PEX. Decided to leave it on to help it bend more easily.
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This is what we have on the electrical thus far.
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This is how things look from the outside now
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And on the inside, that beam with electrical is cleaned up.
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But I'm still having some trouble with that liquid level switch jamming. On the plumbing forums someone suggested getting a different type of switch but the problem is, the switches I've seen require some sort of controller or contactor or something to work with anything 220v or higher. My pump is 230v with max draw of 6.1A.
I found this float lever that I'm thinking of getting https://www.amazon.com/Float-Switch-Septic-System-Sump/dp/B0064BHEVM/
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I've watched videos, googled, read stuff and tried to figure out what I need and I keep seeing mentions of some sort of apparatus that would switch from open to closed and how some are normally open and normally closed and how I would need to wire in the float thingy to that to tell the pump to turn off and on. I believe on the one linked I would cap the brown wire and only use the other two wires. But I keep seeing complicated things where I can't find the exact switches people showed and there seems to be some control board or secondary apparatus and I'm confused.

I have my friend looking into it as well and he found this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01N3KO7SY
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But I have no idea how to wire it, if it would fit in a junction box or if I'd need something different, and if I'd need additional stuff.

So, any ideas? Is this a question for the electrical forum instead?
 
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