slownsteady
Well-Known Member
My sister died of cancer at 50. Right here in the good ol' USA. And she had insurance. What's your point?
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Chris
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Here is another little story.
My mother passed away two years ago on January 26th. She died because she went to the clinic which was county run. She went there monday morning saying something didn't feel right in her chest, they told her she had a cold and sent her on her way. She came back on wednesday saying whatever it was was getting worse and it didn't feel right like any cold and she thought something was really wrong. They told her it must be bronchitis and gave her medicine and sent her home. She came back thursday saying things are getting worse. They sent her home and told her to rest. Saturday morning she called my sister to take her to the hospital but she never made it out the front door. Turns out since she had been a diabetic since age three her body doesn't have the same symptoms as yours or mine and she was having mini heart attacks all week. The guy in the ambulance knew within a minute yet this county paid professional would not even look into it further with her begging him to. She kept a log the last week of her life explaining everything she had told them and what she felt, she knew she was dying but they wouldn't listen. She didn't tell us kids because she didn't want us to worry.
My mother passed away two years ago on January 26th. She died because she went to the clinic which was county run. She went there monday morning saying something didn't feel right in her chest, they told her she had a cold and sent her on her way. She came back on wednesday saying whatever it was was getting worse and it didn't feel right like any cold and she thought something was really wrong. They told her it must be bronchitis and gave her medicine and sent her home. She came back thursday saying things are getting worse. They sent her home and told her to rest. Saturday morning she called my sister to take her to the hospital but she never made it out the front door. Turns out since she had been a diabetic since age three her body doesn't have the same symptoms as yours or mine and she was having mini heart attacks all week. The guy in the ambulance knew within a minute yet this county paid professional would not even look into it further with her begging him to. She kept a log the last week of her life explaining everything she had told them and what she felt, she knew she was dying but they wouldn't listen. She didn't tell us kids because she didn't want us to worry.
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Chris
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point was she couldn't even get the care she needed from the hospitals in London. Which are government run. Everyone says how great the healthcare is in others countries, my point is that it is not.
nealtw
Contractor retired
That's human error and it will happen in any country on any system no matter how much you pay, or don't pay.
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Chris
Guest
Explain a little more on the flat tax and how it screws the lower class? I honestly don't know. I figured it would be more fair for all to pay say 10% of their income instead of the lower class paying 3% and the middle class paying 35%. Don't take this as a stab but the upper few percent probably pay more in taxes than most everyone else combined. I pay more in taxes for my company than most make in a year. I would love a flat tax. You make 1000 bucks a year you pay 100 bucks, you make 100000 a year and you pay 10000. How is that not fair?
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Chris
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It is, I blame that doctor to a certain extent. At these clinics they get people coming everyday trying for free drugs or for things that maybe they don't need to see a doctor for so they get used to just shuffling the people through the clinic and getting them out of there. I have been there, they get so busy they can not give 1 on 1 care or have the time to look into anything. The doctors there are not there because that is their dream job but because they are either new doctors or that is who was hiring. It is government funded so they don't get the best quality out there.
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Chris
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Point of this thread is that healthcare costs are ridiculous. We can blame the government or the big business but in reality they are both at fault and work together. No one has the balls to stand up to either of them. I am upset with the government because every action has a reaction and the reaction to ACA is me getting to pay more to big business. Therefore I hate them both.
frodo
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YOUR[ QUOTE]Like what exactly? What has Obama tried to pass to take away guns from anyone? other than fully automatic assault weapons.[/QUOTE]
please explain your sentence to me? I do not understand it
fully auto weapons were banned in 1934, you have to have a federal sticker to own one. WAY WAY EXPENSIVE.
what iS an assault weapon? can you explain to me what it is?
is this an assault rifle ?
or is this an a salt rifle ? View attachment 8379
they are the same gun, savage caliber in .308
Its like your wife getting a new dress, same old girl under the pretty clothes
please explain your sentence to me? I do not understand it
fully auto weapons were banned in 1934, you have to have a federal sticker to own one. WAY WAY EXPENSIVE.
what iS an assault weapon? can you explain to me what it is?
is this an assault rifle ?
or is this an a salt rifle ? View attachment 8379
they are the same gun, savage caliber in .308
Its like your wife getting a new dress, same old girl under the pretty clothes
Attachments
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zannej
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Chris, I am so sorry about what happened to your mother. *hugs* I would be beyond pissed off at those doctors. I've dealt with a lot of medical incompetence around these parts, but I won't get into all the details.
I think one of the problems going on is that it seems to be harder to get jobs now (at least in some places). Machines replaced people and then companies started importing products from China. Companies are outsourcing or hiring illegal aliens because its cheaper than hiring US citizens. There are litigious assholes with nuisance suits costing everyone money. Then we have a system that gives people more money to sit at home than they could make if they were working. Where I live, there are no more unemployment offices. They all shut down and they want people to file applications online-- but not everyone has internet access to be able to do so AND the software is temperamental so things don't always work. It's hard for someone to talk to an actual human being to get answers and assistance.
Then we have a system where if you don't have a good education you can't get a better paying job, but in places where there aren't many of the higher end jobs, having an education can hurt you because they say you are "overqualified" and won't hire you. They won't let you just walk in and apply for a job-- they tell you to apply online and not to call them.
And because employers are being told they have to cover more healthcare costs for employees, some companies are trying to worm their way out of it by using dirty tactics to treat people as part-time and cut their hours so they get less pay and also hire fewer people so they don't have to pay as much-- which also affects the job market. The local Walmart is particularly bad about this.
I have to agree that both the government AND the businesses are making things worse. The banks aren't helping much with trying to get people in debt up to their eyeballs for an education that now won't even guarantee a job.
Oh yeah, what do you guys think about the US hiring foreign doctors that didn't have to go through the same level of training as US doctors to get their degrees and get hired? Most of the doctors at my local hospital are foreigners that don't seem to understand English and who seem to have gotten their medical degrees out of Crackerjack boxes. The local cardiologist is a complete and total quack and many people (including my father) died because of his incompetence.
Sorry, venting...
TLDR? It's a cluster****.
I think one of the problems going on is that it seems to be harder to get jobs now (at least in some places). Machines replaced people and then companies started importing products from China. Companies are outsourcing or hiring illegal aliens because its cheaper than hiring US citizens. There are litigious assholes with nuisance suits costing everyone money. Then we have a system that gives people more money to sit at home than they could make if they were working. Where I live, there are no more unemployment offices. They all shut down and they want people to file applications online-- but not everyone has internet access to be able to do so AND the software is temperamental so things don't always work. It's hard for someone to talk to an actual human being to get answers and assistance.
Then we have a system where if you don't have a good education you can't get a better paying job, but in places where there aren't many of the higher end jobs, having an education can hurt you because they say you are "overqualified" and won't hire you. They won't let you just walk in and apply for a job-- they tell you to apply online and not to call them.
And because employers are being told they have to cover more healthcare costs for employees, some companies are trying to worm their way out of it by using dirty tactics to treat people as part-time and cut their hours so they get less pay and also hire fewer people so they don't have to pay as much-- which also affects the job market. The local Walmart is particularly bad about this.
I have to agree that both the government AND the businesses are making things worse. The banks aren't helping much with trying to get people in debt up to their eyeballs for an education that now won't even guarantee a job.
Oh yeah, what do you guys think about the US hiring foreign doctors that didn't have to go through the same level of training as US doctors to get their degrees and get hired? Most of the doctors at my local hospital are foreigners that don't seem to understand English and who seem to have gotten their medical degrees out of Crackerjack boxes. The local cardiologist is a complete and total quack and many people (including my father) died because of his incompetence.
Sorry, venting...
TLDR? It's a cluster****.
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Chris
Guest
I can't blame businesses for cutting back on hiring and keeping people part time. As a business owner if I were told that I have to give healthcare to all my employees or cut their hours to 29, what would you do? Paying for health care for all would put us out of business.
frodo
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Your in a pickle Chris, Contractors do not wanna hear your financial problems. and you had better have some one on that job 40 hours a week, or another company will be on the bid list in your place.
caught tween the rock and a hard place.
most small contractors around here are laying off their full time hourly workers and hiring them back as contract workers
thats how they are going around the health insurance.
for ya'll that dont know. instead of an hourly wage. you are paid by the job. you pay your own tax's, ins, etc.
caught tween the rock and a hard place.
most small contractors around here are laying off their full time hourly workers and hiring them back as contract workers
thats how they are going around the health insurance.
for ya'll that dont know. instead of an hourly wage. you are paid by the job. you pay your own tax's, ins, etc.
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Chris
Guest
In CA that is illegal. If you are not an hourly or salary employee you have to have your own contractors license. They put us in a hard spot. I pay more money to the government and to insurances than I do anywhere else.
zannej
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Oh, I agree. It is particularly hard for small businesses to pay the employees-- especially when you already have to pay FICA and SUTA and all the other costs. However, there are some large corporations that could actually afford to pay but they want a larger profit margin so they don't even pay their employees a living wage (*coughWalmartcough*).
I sometimes wonder if maybe there were more tax breaks for companies that chose to hire US citizens and operate inside the country while having higher taxes or fees involved for outsourcing that it might help. I don't know though. I just wish there was more incentive to hire US workers inside the US. The quality of products and services have declined because of the outsourcing. I won't even get started on outsourced tech support aka one of the banes of my existence.
But back to the healthcare issue, I do really think one of the first steps that should be taken is to look at how much places are charging for things and evaluate how much it actually costs and then have a system where prices are advertised ahead of time so people won't be so shocked when they get the bills. There should be a way to price compare medical services but also rate the quality of service. Maybe there already is such a system in some places, but its not available where I live. If the government, as flawed as it is, were to look in to what causes the highest expenses for hospitals and medical facilities maybe they could try to find a way to minimize it and to get prices to be more reasonable. Once they get prices to be somewhat consistent and reasonable, then maybe it won't cost the insurance companies so much for stuff and the insurance companies in turn wouldn't have to charge as much. I also think they need to look at what insurance companies approve and deny and try to come to an agreement on what is reasonable. Sometimes they will approve something one day and deny it another.
I have a friend who has worked hard her whole life but is almost bankrupt from her soon-to-be ex-husband's medical bills. Every time she tried to save up money something happened- like a car breaking down, husband had another MS attack and insurance said he'd already met the lifetime payout, doctors wanted money up front for her daughter's medical treatment, air conditioner broke down, her job cut her salary and didn't give her one of her paychecks.... She's not by any stretch a lazy person, but she was dealt a raw deal. Her husband's condition got to the point that she no longer feels safe with him and he had to move out-- but he can actually get better benefits and treatment by NOT being married to her because they said her income was too high to qualify for assistance even though she was barely making ends meet because of the medical crap. I know this doesn't happen with every family, but it is sad to see.
By the way, I love you guys.
frodo
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case in point. while in Texas, I broke a front axle on my 4x4. I had extended warranty, not worried about it.
I toke my truck to GMAC and told them to fix it. they caled me back, said the Ins. denied the claim. said it was abuse
I told GMAc to fix it , I would pay myself. JUST FIX IT!! I was told it would be $2900.00
mean while I was on the phone with the INS co. HOW can using a 4x4 for its intended purpose be abuse? after a few words
they agreed to fix it.
I saw the bill, they paid $1900.00 $1000.00 less than what I was going to pay. THAT is the problem, price gauging
I toke my truck to GMAC and told them to fix it. they caled me back, said the Ins. denied the claim. said it was abuse
I told GMAc to fix it , I would pay myself. JUST FIX IT!! I was told it would be $2900.00
mean while I was on the phone with the INS co. HOW can using a 4x4 for its intended purpose be abuse? after a few words
they agreed to fix it.
I saw the bill, they paid $1900.00 $1000.00 less than what I was going to pay. THAT is the problem, price gauging
zannej
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Yeah, the price gouging is a major problem. And then you have things like my friend encountered where the insurance paid for her husband's medicine. It was the only medicine that helped with his pain. It was approved before, but suddenly they said they weren't going to cover it anymore and it would cost my friend $2000 for the stuff. They said they would partially cover a generic but it was like $600 co-pay and she couldn't afford it. Pharmaceutical costs are just insane (and I do know part of it is to cover the cost of clinical trials and lawsuits, but its still ridiculous).
And then we have a system that rewards people for being criminals because people in prison can get free education and medical care. They now have a cure for Hepatitis C but most people can't afford it. They are giving it to prison inmates who got HepC from sharing needles, but a nurse who got HepC from an unfortunate incident at work is dying because he can't afford it.
Bonkers.
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slownsteady
Well-Known Member
Healthcare IS a complicated problem. And no one - no country - seems to have a perfect answer. But in this country, we have got lost in the weeds.
First, you can't blame it ALL on Obama. He didn't invent the problem and he didn't invent the ACA all by himself. Many smart people worked on a solution to something that was a problem before this administration took office. Give them credit for trying, at least. The problem is that there is way too much money at stake and those with the money (and the power in DC...which money can and does buy) don't want it to change. The ACA was a compromise from the start. It needs improvement or possibly even a better alternate plan. But going back seems absurd.
First, you can't blame it ALL on Obama. He didn't invent the problem and he didn't invent the ACA all by himself. Many smart people worked on a solution to something that was a problem before this administration took office. Give them credit for trying, at least. The problem is that there is way too much money at stake and those with the money (and the power in DC...which money can and does buy) don't want it to change. The ACA was a compromise from the start. It needs improvement or possibly even a better alternate plan. But going back seems absurd.
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Chris
Guest
I agree and the only reason I want to go back is because before I could easily afford healthcare and I was taken care of. I remember ten years ago I was paying about fifty bucks a month for medical and dental with a ten dollar copay per visit. I want that back. I know it is not totally tge presidents fault but he is the figure head of the whole thing so he gets the blame. I must not have paid as much attention in the past and it was probably because I had nothing to complain about.
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havasu
Guest
All I can say at this moment is I am glad to see this thread continue here on this forum. Understanding this is under the chit chat section, it is a hot button topic and whether we discuss it here or on another forum, it will be discussed. I happen to know that the owners of this site prefer us sticking around in here, rather than changing channels. I appreciate everyone's honesty, and also appreciate that name calling was kept to a minimum.
zannej
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Unfortunately, I don't think the going back would make the insurance companies lower their rates again. Many of them claim to be "not for profit" but they have billions of $ stored away in banks accruing interest.
I know one of the hurdles is that in order to even begin to fix things, we have to get some sort of organized system to start making the changes and its hard to get people to agree on things and there are people who are inept or corrupt and they interfere.
I mentioned before that we need to try to regulate the hospitals and clinics and figure out how to get prices down, but that will require government intervention, which means they will have to assign people to collect the data, figure out what costs are reasonable, and then try to enforce it. Which takes manpower and $. But sometimes I wonder if it would be worth it so Medicare/Medicaid or whatever doesn't have to pay for people to go to the ER and get some absurd bill when it would have been less expensive for them to go to a regular doctor for preventative care in the first place.
Havasu, I'm glad to see that, for the most part, this thread eschewed ad hominem arguments. It shows that we have an awesome group of people here.
Anyway, I think I've devised a plan:
Step 1: Steal Underpants
Step 2: ??
Step 3: Profit
I know one of the hurdles is that in order to even begin to fix things, we have to get some sort of organized system to start making the changes and its hard to get people to agree on things and there are people who are inept or corrupt and they interfere.
I mentioned before that we need to try to regulate the hospitals and clinics and figure out how to get prices down, but that will require government intervention, which means they will have to assign people to collect the data, figure out what costs are reasonable, and then try to enforce it. Which takes manpower and $. But sometimes I wonder if it would be worth it so Medicare/Medicaid or whatever doesn't have to pay for people to go to the ER and get some absurd bill when it would have been less expensive for them to go to a regular doctor for preventative care in the first place.
Havasu, I'm glad to see that, for the most part, this thread eschewed ad hominem arguments. It shows that we have an awesome group of people here.
Anyway, I think I've devised a plan:
Step 1: Steal Underpants
Step 2: ??
Step 3: Profit
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