How close is close enough?

[ShellbackBill]

Lumber ain't perfect.

As I build things, it seems that nothing ever comes out exactly 4 square and true. Close, but not perfect.

I've been building sheds and additions for years. I've added room to houses.

Nothing ever comes out perfect. You lay that first piece of 4x8 subfloor and it's 1/8 inch off. It lines up perfect in one direction, but misses the center of the 2x by 1/8 inch or so on the other.

Let's not even mention the fact that the house I am working on, nothing was square when I started. (some of it is now. )

I'm adding a 40ft x 8ft addition to the back of my house right now. I put the first piece of sheathing on one end, virtually perfectly square and plumb. the other end? About a 1/4 off.

This is the biggest project I've ever tackled.

How square is close enough?

 

[bud16415]

We used to hear the story (now a little off color) when I was in trade school about the teacher posing the question there is an Engineer and a Carpenter both standing on one side of a large room and on the other side was the most beautiful woman they ever had ever seen. They were told that they could take turns crossing the room and could only travel half the remaining distance to the woman. The Engineer quickly thought about it and said this is ridicules I will never be able to get there! The Carpenter thought about it a second and said “Close Enough”.


I worked my whole life with tool and die standards with lots of work requiring .0005” accuracy and some requiring .00005” that’s 50 millionths of an inch. When doing that work the half of one thousands work seemed sloppy. It is all relative and the test of a craftsman is making the best of what he has to work with. Buildings don’t require furniture standards of accuracy and cost prohibits trying to go for it. Everything has different levels of accuracy where it becomes functional and going beyond is great but not required.


Accumulated error is a big issue in construction of any kind and recognizing it early and making corrections is key.


IMO of home construction I have seen of late most of it (rough framing) is done a little on the sloppy side. The methods of correcting for this and that are relied on more than they need to be.


IMO there is no answer to How square is close enough? But you know it when you see it.

 

[ShellbackBill]

LOL! Know it when you see it.

I once heard a story about a judge trying a case dealing with pornography. When asked to define pornography, his answer was, "I can't define it, but I know it when I see it."

Maybe in carpentry, it's close enough if the sheet rock contractor doesn't come hunting for you with a 2x4 in hand. And since I am the sheet rock contractor....

 

[bud16415]

Exactly. Check out how much clearance rough framers leave for a door or window and how many tapered shims get used. It is better to have too large an opening but one that is too small will eat up your profits. As long as the trim covers it all is good in the end. All building practices are geared around speed and usage of material.


When my house was built 1870s studs were spaced by the length of the guys hammer. It didn’t really matter because lath was nailed up and plank sheathing to suit. Now if your studs are not correct the drywall guy will know you by your first name.

 

[nealtw]

Close enough is only used when you haven't double checked when you know where it would be important.
Did you check the forms for square before you poured concrete.
Did you check it for square before you added lumber.
did you lay out the ledger and rim while they were tacked together.
Did you use a square to lay out your joists, pencils get fat.
Did you check it for square before you started with plywood.
Now if it is a kitchen or bathroom it is serious
If it is a bath or kitchen, bump the above wall out to make it square.

 

[billshack]

I was a plumber for 30 years inthe trade, now semi retired. we rounded off all measurements to the nearest 1/4 of an inch .

 

[nealtw]

I was a plumber for 30 years inthe trade, now semi retired. we rounded off all measurements to the nearest 1/4 of an inch .

That doesn't work in framing, people do that and we read all the time about how the framers left things out of square.

 

[pjones]

Framing and foundation are the two most important things to make square and level. They start the setting for how the rest of the build will go.

The more money you save on those two the more you will pay when it comes to finishing.