No permits found for installation...

Discussion in 'HVAC' started by o2284200, Apr 11, 2016.

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  1. Apr 11, 2016 #1

    o2284200

    o2284200

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    In 2012 I bought the house that you all have been helping repair, which was built in 1970. Everything was original except the central HVAC, which according to the stickers on it was manufactured in 2010 and installed by XYZ Co but I could not find a permit with the local municipality for the installation. The home inspector said it wasn't a big deal; I could not be held responsible nor get in any sort of trouble nor incur a fine, if it wasn't installed up to code before I bought the house.

    OK...Great!

    How much responsibility does the installer "XYZ Co." have, if it wasn't installed up to code?
     
  2. Apr 11, 2016 #2

    slownsteady

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    Do you know if you even need a permit to replace an existing system? If the previous owner had a problem with the original unit, he has the option to replace it...why would he need a permit?
     
  3. Apr 11, 2016 #3

    o2284200

    o2284200

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    Yes, a permit is needed to install a new HVAC system, even if it's replacing an existing system.
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
  4. Apr 11, 2016 #4

    nealtw

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    Pull the permit have it inspected, if it fails call xyz.
     
  5. Apr 11, 2016 #5

    havasu

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    I'm scratching my head on the necessity of a permit. Let's say your compressor dies and you need to replace it. Is a permit needed? Let's go one step further. You blow your 50 amp fuses to the HVAC.... is a permit needed?

    I'm sorry. I love to have a safe, well constructed house. However, I know for a fact that the city bozos know far less than the experts we generally hire to replace our outdated systems.

    Sorry, I just needed to vent. Now, let's proceed with our normal broadcasting here.
     
  6. Apr 11, 2016 #6

    nealtw

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    He just wants to know it is up to code and safe.
     
  7. Apr 11, 2016 #7

    Snoonyb

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    Repairs to existing systems, which do not affect life and safety, will not illicit the requirement for a permit.

    The key word in that statement is,"replace," and that will illicit the requirement for a permit.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The home inspector said it wasn't a big deal;

    This is why you should always ask for a copy of all permits issued to the address.

    There also rules of disclosure for realtors which creates responsibility.

    I could not be held responsible nor get in any sort of trouble nor incur a fine, if it wasn't installed up to code before I bought the house.

    Probably not directly, however, how much $ are you willing to give away, to a prospective buyer who asks for permits, in a negotiated sale, the cost of a city inspection, subsequent permit, possible corrective repairs?

    Or taking it off the market and listing it a again as an as listing?

    Your inspector did you a disservice, because he had nothing to lose.

    Who hired him, or recommended him, may give some incite to the depth of the corruption.

    How much responsibility does the installer "XYZ Co." have, if it wasn't installed up to code?

    Each state has prescribed contractor warranties and if this discovery falls within that time frame or if they are a local business, can have an influence.

    Also an agressive city attny can as well.
     
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  8. Apr 11, 2016 #8

    beachguy005

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    So it was probably installed 6 years ago, for an owner that sold the house 4 years ago, in an area of Florida that has more AC contractors than palmetto bugs. The original installer could always say it was installed to code and how could you prove otherwise? Previous owner could of had 3 or 4 other contractors, licensed or otherwise, service it.
    I think you're making too big of an issue out of it. Anyone looking at a house in south Florida has... how old is the AC unit and when will have to replace it, as one of their first question. You've probably got a few years life in it but you'll end up replacing it before getting any remedy from pursuing the original contractor.
     
  9. Apr 11, 2016 #9

    Chris

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    Here you do not need a permit to replace a failed system. Mine was replaced 6 months ago. You could have had an original ac that was replaced probably a few times in the homes life. I would find it odd that you need a permit for one but in some cities around here you need one for a microwave replacement.
     
  10. Apr 11, 2016 #10

    Snoonyb

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    I'm interested, what city in CA. has waived the title 24 requirements?
     
  11. Apr 11, 2016 #11

    o2284200

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    If it came down to it, I believe the burden of proof would be on the contractor to prove by way of the permit that they installed it to code.
    Yes, he could of but I don't believe so...he still lives 2 houses down from me and still uses XYZ, co.

    I haven't stated the specifics of any issues yet so to say I'm making it too big, might be premature. Buying a house anywhere, especially South FL with a/c only 2 years old is usually a good thing...But, thanks for your input!! :beer:
     
  12. Apr 11, 2016 #12

    o2284200

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    Where I live, a permit is needed to replace the complete existing HVAC system with an complete new HVAC system. With that being said, What would you do, if a permit was required but no permit was pulled and now the same issues on the system keep failing over and over and over but XYZ, co keeps f*cking with you?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2016
  13. Apr 11, 2016 #13

    Chris

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    Was it the condenser outside replace or did they also replace the forced air and other stuff in your attic?

    Is it still under warranty six years down the road? Not trying to pick on you, just trying get the whole story. What is the install company saying about your complaint? And what is your complaint? Is it just the permit issue or is there a problem with the system?
     
  14. Apr 11, 2016 #14

    Chris

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    I am not familiar with Title 24? Is that the code for AC stuff?
     
  15. Apr 11, 2016 #15

    Snoonyb

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    Not a lot of detail there, however the key to success is documentation.

    Do not detail any interaction you have had with xyz.

    Obtain several estimates from other vendors to accomplish any corrective action needed, have then detail the cause and repairs necessary on the estimate.
     
  16. Apr 11, 2016 #16

    Snoonyb

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    It's the CA energy code.
     
  17. Apr 11, 2016 #17

    Chris

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    I just looked it up and see where they are requiring it along with a bunch of other nonsense. I am guessing the AC guy for my home warranty company was not telling the truth when he said we did not need one for the condenser replacement. I did not have my forced air or anything else replaced.

    I just read an article about how most companies are not pulling the permits because of the leak tests and how the requirements are just costing everyone more money and making the contractor look like they are trying to gouge people. Don't know how I feel about title 24. Like the idea but not the plan of action.
     
  18. Apr 11, 2016 #18

    Chris

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    OK Did some more reading and the reason I did not need a permit is becasue I have less than 40 of ductwork in unconditioned spaces like attics, garages, crawlspaces, basements, or outside the building. Title 24 was not required according to title 24.

    Mine was added on maybe 10-15 years ago and only has about 30 of ducting total in my tiny house.
     
  19. Apr 11, 2016 #19

    Chris

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    It is also only required in these climate areas. Guess they are not worried about the use of AC in beach cities.

    (climate zones 2, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, and 16)
     
  20. Apr 11, 2016 #20

    Snoonyb

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    I agree, however, this is the Nanny state of Nanny states, controlled by gov. moonbeam, a "dismalcrate", and led the move to abolish the incandescent bulb, resulting in higher utility bills.
     

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