Please help! Replacement ceiling fan wiring!!!

Discussion in 'Electrical and Wiring' started by Billbill84, Dec 3, 2019.

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  1. Dec 3, 2019 #1

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

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    Hi guys. So this old unknown brand (possibly 2001 Casablanca?) has got to go. Now I've swapped 6 or 7 fans in my life but this one is weird due to the way the old fan is wired because of the internal mount light band that's inside the can that's just like a regular 2-wire lamp cord, one hot one ground.
    Now the instructions say the new fan blue and black go to the house black wire, white to white, and green to green or bare ground. It's usually that simple BUT here what I got:
    My electrical box in ceiling only has 3 white and 1 blue wire that's connected to the old fan. There's a couple yellows and a red but they are just tucked up in the box and never connected to that old fan so wasn't planning on messing with those ones.
    It looks like the old fan motor has 2 black, 1 orange wire and they are bundled to the 1 blue wire that's coming from the house. The hot side of the light strand splits off and is bundled there as well.
    The old fan motor also has a white wire that's bundled to the 3 white wires coming from the house and the ground side of the light strand splits off and is bundled there as well.
    So all in all my electrical box has 3 white, 1 blue wire feeding the old fan. New fan with light has 1 blue, 1 black, 1 white, 1 green.
    To wire it I was thinking new fan bundle 1 black and 1 blue to the 1 house blue, bundle new fan 1 white to the house 3 white wires, why's there 3 white anyway? Lol.
    Should note that there's 2 wall toggles that control this fan on/off function and nothing else on the fan. No dimmers. See pics for clearer picture of what I'm seeing. Am I right on wiring it? Thx
     

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  2. Dec 3, 2019 #2

    Snoonyb

    Snoonyb

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    "To wire it I was thinking new fan bundle 1 black and 1 blue to the 1 house blue, bundle new fan 1 white to the house 3 white wires, why's there 3 white anyway? Lol."

    You say that there are two toggles, IE two single pole switches, controlling the existing fixture, if you connect the blue and black conductor from the new fixture to the blue conductor in the ceiling box, you will only use one of the existing single pole switches to energize both the new fan and light, and subsequently controlled the fan and light functions with the individual fixture pull chains.

    If you want the two single pole wall switches too each control one of the new fixture functions, then you'll need to, with a VOM, determine which conductors in the ceiling box are the switched conductors, from each individual single pole switch, and then connect the black conductor from the new fixture to that conductor, and the other conductor to the blue conductor from the new fixture, to retain individual control of both of the new fixture functions.
     
  3. Dec 3, 2019 #3

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

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    Each wall switch just turned the old fan light and fan on/off together. Never had individual control of light vs fan. Each wall switch did same function; all on or all off. If I wanted just the light or just fan running I'd have to use the pull chain. I'd want to have it same way just was confused as to why I only have 3 white and one blue coming from the ceiling electrical box, yet both wall switches operate the fan.
     
  4. Dec 3, 2019 #4

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

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    Here's another schematic of old fan/light setup. 3 white ceiling wires from box bundled to 1 white wire from old fan motor. 1 blue wire from ceiling electrical box bundled to old fan motor's 2 black and 1 orange wire.
    New fan/light has 1 black, 1 blue, 1 white, and 1 green.
     

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  5. Dec 3, 2019 #5

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

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    Your wall toggle switches are probably “3 way” switches.
    They both control the power to the fan.
    Also, as far as just pull chains controlling the fan, pretty much every new fan nowadays has a remote control.
    If yours does not have one, you can buy a remote control kit.
    Or better yet, take that fan back and buy a fan with a remote.
    The remote can provide light on-off plus dimming, and fan on-off plus speed control.
    If you rely on the pull chains for control, their little switches are usually plastic Chinese garbage that won’t last very long.
     
  6. Dec 3, 2019 #6

    Snoonyb

    Snoonyb

    Snoonyb

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    The three white conductors are typical of a junction box and the probability is, that if you disassemble the connection, something down the line will not operate. In other words the light circuit hot pair is daisy chained thru that ceiling box.

    You can leave the switch operation as it is, or as MR. Handy has suggested, install a remote that is wired into the fixture and controlled as in a TV remote. There are also models that replace the switch/s. There are also switch blanking inserts that replace switches and/or recep. without the expense of replacing the cover plate.

    You have a number of option to make things simpler, and/or, to clean things up.
     
  7. Dec 3, 2019 #7

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

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    They're not 3 way switches. Just on/off regular switches.
     
  8. Dec 3, 2019 #8

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

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    So I've learned that the fan has Chinese garbage in it that won't last and if I unwire inside that box something else won't work lol.
     
  9. Dec 3, 2019 #9

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

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    If two different switches control one fan or fixture or outlet, they should be 3 way.
    If there is no on/off molded into the toggle, they are 3 way.
    There is a “traveler” wire that runs between them.
    Otherwise you sometimes have to walk over to both switches to turn the fan on or off.
    Not unheard of, but a nuisance.

    The Chinese junk fan switches are not that big a deal if they break, you can get a new pull chain switch for the fan or light for about ten bucks.
    Pretty easy to change them out.
    I usually take off one or two blades for good access.
     
  10. Dec 3, 2019 #10

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

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    You can unwire the neutrals or hots in the ceiling box.

    Just kill main power first.

    Reconnect all neutrals together as they were before.
     
  11. Dec 3, 2019 #11

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

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    He meant that if you take apart a bunch of joined neutrals, something else that also is using that neutral wire will stop working.

    Not a problem, as long as you kill main power first, and connect all of them together just like they were before.

    If there is more than one bundle of neutrals, keep the bundles separate and as they were.
    And put the new fan on the same neutral bundle as before.
     
  12. Dec 3, 2019 #12

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

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    Ok so the one white wire coming from new fan bundle to the other white wires. What about the only other wire that's coming from the ceiling box, it's blue. The old fan had 2
    Black and 1 Orange that bundled to that single blue wire in the box. New fan has 1 black, 1 blue, 1 white. There's a green one too but no green/bare wire in the box..
     
  13. Dec 3, 2019 #13

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

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    The reason why the fan has two hot wires is because fans are often wired to a set of double switches.
    One for fan, one for light.
    You only have one wall switch, and one hot wire in the ceiling box.
    So all hot wires from the fan go together onto hot wire in ceiling.
    White goes to white in ceiling.
    Green would go to a ground wire in ceiling if you had that.
    Or, if ceiling box is metal, it is likely grounded, and you can screw it or clip it to that box.
     
  14. Dec 4, 2019 #14

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

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    Ok thank you sir. By the way, 2 wall switches go to the old fan
     
  15. Dec 4, 2019 #15

    Jeff Handy

    Jeff Handy

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    I mis-stated my single switch reply.

    I meant you only have one switched hot wire in your ceiling box.

    Both your wall switches are attached to it, but they only control on/off to the one hot wire.

    Your fan (and most fans) are wired so that two switches (mounted next to each other on the wall) can operate the light or fan independently.
    These switches can be toggles, or dimmers/speed controls.

    This will not be the case for your setup.

    Actually, one of the other wires up in the ceiling box could be there to allow this double control, but only a qualified electrician could verify that for you.

    Don’t bother getting into it.

    Most likely, the other hot wires are just using that box to get power to somewhere else in the house.
     
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  16. Dec 4, 2019 #16

    Billbill84

    Billbill84

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    Ok cool thanks a bunch!
     

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