Replacing exterior doors with rotted sills

Discussion in 'Windows and Doors' started by zannej, Jun 6, 2017.

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  1. Sep 3, 2017 #41

    mabloodhound

    mabloodhound

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    First, there is no reason to use PT lumber on an interior wall. I build all my headers using 2x8 with plywood sandwich glued up and nailed...much stronger than a single 4x4 post.
    As for tongue & groove plywood on a wall...it's not needed. I only use T&G on floors. And yes, plywood on a wall should be run horizontally for the best strength over 8'....less joints...unless you're just doing a patch.

    Dave Mason
     
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  2. Sep 4, 2017 #42

    zannej

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    The header is on an exterior wall and I live in an area with extremely high humidity.

    The tongue and groove was intended for the floor-- not the walls. I plan to re-use some old wall panels for the wall material.

    When I was talking about the direction of the plywood, I meant for the floor as well. Hence the mention of joists instead of studs. :D

    I think my joists are 24" apart but they might not be a standard distance-- I won't know until I measure them and the weather hasn't been agreeable for doing so. I want to reinforce the floor under where I want to put a bathtub and the washer and dryer. I want to make sure it has sufficient support. I was thinking of the PT post for box joists under those areas.
     
  3. Jul 7, 2019 #43

    zannej

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    I'm still procrastinating on this one. Since my last post a few things have happened. My friend's father & grandmother both passed away. He's working 2 jobs & works 6 days a week. On his 1 day off, he often gets roped in to fixing things for family members or friends so he doesn't get much rest.

    The back door has deteriorated more & the pet door fell apart & fell out of it. I purchased an 40"x40" awning to go over the door on the outside. It's got metal brackets with clear ABS for the "roof" part. It will allow light in but should deflect the rain. I'll just need to find a good way to anchor it & figure out the best way to put it up. But, I really need to replace the back door & may have to do it before replacing the subfloor. I'm wondering if I can just cut out the part where the threshold will be & put in some new lumber or composite material & install a plastic sill over some flashing tape (I want to make sure no water gets in). I am actually thinking of seeing if I can install a new header & adjust the cripples & king studs to make the top part level without removing the existing door so that I can get the awning up.

    When I do work on the floor, I'm thinking of using 1-1/8" cat PSI-9 tongue & groove plywood. It is supposed to work as a single layer subfloor. It will be heavy since it is so thick, but I will only need 4 sheets & won't have to worry about staggering the seams as much. I will probably have to sister the joists to make them level.
     
  4. Jul 8, 2019 #44

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    If you do the door first and change the floor under it put 2x4 block on the flat under the seam to the old floor
    upload_2019-7-8_9-57-28.png
     
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  5. Jul 9, 2019 #45

    zannej

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    Thanks, Neal! It's been too long since we've chatted. As always, I appreciate your help.
    A 2x4 sounds like a good idea. When I cut away the rotted part it should also let me see how thick the subfloor is. I really wish I hadn't procrastinated on this so long because prices for some things have gone way up.
     
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  6. Jul 10, 2019 #46

    nealtw

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    I would use two layers of plywood, when you cut out the old one with a circular, it keeps you 1 1/2" off the wall so you add the 2x4 blocks between the joists to make the connection with plywood the same thickness and then you cover both with the next one.
    On the side where you are going in the same direction as the joist, you need blocks to go from joist to the joist under the wall every 16" and then fill the gaps with the same 2x4 blocks.
    If the blue line is the old floor the red blocks are the 2x4s Zen 1.png
     
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  7. Jul 18, 2019 #47

    zannej

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    I was actually thinking of using some 2x6s as reinforcement on the edge that will have the laundry appliances and bathtub. I may have to sister at least some of the joists to get the floor level because I know it slopes.
     
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  8. Nov 18, 2019 #48

    zannej

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    I'm still procrastinating & trying to get my thoughts in order. I was looking at the pictures again & I'm not very happy with the king studs (I think those are the ones that support the header). I was thinking of removing them but that would be a pain so I might sister up next to them & have new king studs that go all the way up tight to the bottom of the new top-header.

    I'm almost wondering if I can get away with just patching the floor where it is damaged instead of replacing it entirely (bc holy crap the price of plywood has gone up!) but I'll have to see about that when I have more demo done (and major cleanup bc that area has turned into a junk bin). I need to tackle the weeds that are clawing at the back door & starting to grow through the hole where the cat door used to be. Worst case scenario, I can make adjustments to door height a 2nd time if I end up having to replace the entire floor & I can use transition strips between threshold & flooring if new floor ends up lower or I can trim a little more if new floor ends up higher. I may be able to add a 1/4 plywood underlayment over things after taking care of the door area but before putting in finished floor. (If it wasn't so expensive, removing all of the floor would be good to gain access for plumbing-- but if I cut holes large enough to climb through or at least reach through, I might be able to have access to plumbing. If it comes down to it, my beloved friend has admitted he owes us both of his kidneys at this point & would be willing to crawl under the house to places my fat behind won't fit.

    The awning I got can be either 40" wide or 80" wide so I can put up 40" width and then expand to 80" later.

    My plan thus far:
    • Find where tf I put the new cat door & take it to the workshop
    • Drill & cut hole in new door for cat door
    • Paint new door (maybe w/ Behr one-coat exterior paint-- my sister's house has Behr paint & it's great)
    • Prime & paint awning brackets
    • Check floor for level diagonally, perpendicular, and parallel to door (make sure floor doesn't slope up to be scraped when door swings)
    • Remove old threshold & cut away rotted floor to find thickness of floor and patch w/ 2x4 or 2x6 (or whatever size is needed to fill the gap)
    • Use leveling compound if there is too much slope (I've figured out how to make smaller batches that are easier to manage)
    • Create new header with two 2x6s sandwiched together (glue & nails?)
    • Remove hinge pins on old door to get it out of the way & make it easier to remove old framing
    • Use a piece of vinyl plank to gauge height needed for new door for clearance (1/4" or 3/8" gap above finished floor sufficient?)
    • Remove old door trim, jamb, sill, etc (some may already be done from previous step)
    • Replace any rotted wood if necessary
    • Install sill pan & wrap with self adhering flashing, & caulk
    • W/ correct heights known, cut new king studs to proper length & sister to outsides of old king studs (or just set them next without tethering)
    • Remove cripples & old 2x4 header (or at least loosen cripples so they are not in the way-- wiring may make this a pain; might need to just measurex2, mark, & cut cripples in place)
    • Install new header on top of king studs
    • Adjust old header to give 82" clearance from threshold top & use shims to make it level
    • Cut cripples to fit tightly between top of 2x4 & bottom of header & jam them in (tethering method nails at an angle? Glue? both?)
    • Add internal blocking for awning support (I think they need to be spaced 40" apart-- can awning be screwed in to the header from the outside?)
    • Figure out desired height and position of awning (Note to self: find specs for awning to determine height of brackets where they meet the wall)
    • Create support frame for awning (it has two long PVC bracket/side supports & a translucent plastic panel for the top that is held in when the brackets are secured in place so putting them on a frame to get it together might help and then frame can be screwed to blocking &/or header)
    • Install z-flashing and/or head flashing on top of door frame
    • Install new door & cat door- caulk around edges
    • Replace old exterior door trim w/ PVC or something waterproof
    • Measure & mark floor for cuts for plumbing rough-in & electrical (if any goes through floor-- might go through walls instead)
    • Remove old wall paneling & add insulation
    • Get whole house surge protector installed & make sure there is a proper grounding rod (add 1 if necessary)
    • Replace old wall paneling & install new wall paneling over bare areas around door
    • Replace exterior light that broke during hurricane (probably will be underneath awning)
    • Remove cinderblock steps, level ground, & install proper concrete steps OR build small landing (can be done later after steps replaced)

    I hope I didn't miss anything.
    I'm still trying to make sure I'm clear on exactly where the sill pan would go (below the threshold & finished floor?)
    I'm also trying to figure out what is available for me to use as a finished door sill beyond the threshold so the threshold won't wobble like the one at the front door.
    What is the best paint for coating smooth PVC (I will sand it to rough it up & probably use primer-- want to have it be satin or gloss white)?
    For the header: Wood glue or construction adhesive to bind the pieces?
    100% silicone or door & window caulk?

    I'll have to come up with some sketches of my plans to lay things out better. It has been very cold coming from that back area now that the weather has dropped to the 30° range so this needs to be addressed before it gets colder.

    Any thoughts (other than to get my *** in gear?) My friend only has 2 free days a week but he's also having issues bc his ex has been giving him problems w/ custody & the other friend moved out of state so he won't be helping. 1st friend has promised to make time to help when he can though.
     
  9. Nov 18, 2019 #49

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    Did you buy a prehung exterior door with a threshold?
    Did you check the total height of the door jam and compare that to what room you have.
    Silicone, is saved for bathrooms, not to be used in most places. There are other paintable caulks
    Hard to say what is going on with the floor until you get into it.
    Not a good winter job. The door and door jam should be pulled and floor ripped open a little.
    At that point decisions will have to be made and maybe more supplies, that might leave the house open for a few days. You would just nail up temp plywood but that does nothing for your heat or lack of heat.
     
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  10. Nov 18, 2019 #50

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    This picture leaves lots of questions about the floor.
    [​IMG]

    And this would be the normal zen 1.png
     
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  11. Nov 19, 2019 #51

    zannej

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    The prehung door came with a threshold.
    Do you mean the existing door jamb or the new one? I measured from the top of the floor inside the door to what passes for a header- it was uneven (I think one side something like 81" and the other side 82" but I noted that the floor sloped downward to the left while facing the outside). I haven't measured that mess under the threshold yet.
    The picture you re-posted of mine is one of the things that troubled me. I highly doubt any sort of flashing was used. I'm not even sure if that door was original to the house or if someone added it later. I will check to make sure I have the proper lumber available before any cutting & I will patch the floor asap. If I have to take the door out for more than a day I will hang up a moving blanket in the doorway (so the cats can still get in & out). I believe I have a clear plastic tarp I can put on the outside part to protect it from rain as well.

    I definitely want to work on at least some of this before it gets colder. I'll have to talk to my friend about his schedule & see when he can come help me.
     
  12. Nov 19, 2019 #52

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    A repair to the floor should be under the threshold too. It has been a while and boy that is a lot of reading to get the memory back.
     
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  13. Nov 19, 2019 #53

    zannej

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    I found the pet door! Now I need to get my mother to pick paint she likes for the door. We were going to go to the store today but I kept getting woken up last night & early this morning. Might go in a bit. I need to get my jigsaw back from my friend (who is currently working on my brother's truck).

    I'll probably have to drill inside behind the threshold to see what condition the wood is in. Pretty sure all that mess & the sill will need to be cut out and replaced.

    There is a sill that extends out a little bit below the height of the threshold (and obviously it has rotted). I need to measure the depth of that to determine what width board I will need to replace it- although I will try to see if I can find something waterproof. Would that go under the sill pan? Or in front of it sort of? Whatever is underneath it I intend to cover with flashing.

    When I was talking about the door not being original I meant doorway. I know this door wasn't there when we left & it's clear the tenants screwed it up when they replaced the steel door that was there with a crappy wood one. But it doesn't have a proper header so I'm guessing it was a modification done later (although I haven't examined the other doors in the house to see if they have headers).

    I'm going to try to do this in manageable steps but I'm trying to keep in mind that I want it done before December.
     
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  14. Nov 20, 2019 #54

    nealtw

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    The door threshold should sit on the sub floor. So when you measure for the new door fit you should be measuring from the floor inside to the header, your new door is likely more than 82" high.
     
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  15. Nov 20, 2019 #55

    zannej

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    The door width (including the jamb) is 37.5" and the height is 81.625" so I agree it would probably need to be a little over 82" to fit properly once the finished floor is in. I'm halfway tempted to use housewrap on the floor underneath the vinyl planks, but I don't think it is designed for floor applications.
    I purchased the paint for the awning & my mother picked a color she liked for door but it was from a Glidden brand paint & we want to use Behr. Not sure if Behr will color match a Glidden chip. HomeDepot says their paint coloring machine has many options and can use a spectrographic analyzer on samples brought in. I'm hoping this would work for Behr's single coat exterior satin paint.

    But, cutting for the pet door takes priority. I need to find a time when my friend is free to help me because it's too heavy for me to lift it on my own & my brother whines too much when I ask for his help. Unfortunately, my friend injured his back at work & is spending his next day off going to the doctor for an MRI. I suppose I could see if I can maneuver the door by myself tomorrow. I plan to pop the hinge pins out & put the door on the work table.

    I need to stop procrastinating!

    I'm also thinking about my bathroom floor & just now realized a ratio for the floor leveling mix that might be easier to manage. I should try to get my tools back from my friend tomorrow. Forgot the last time I was over.

    Note to self: Stop procrastinating!!!
     
  16. Nov 25, 2019 #56

    zannej

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    This is a crappy sketch of the doorway & sill from two different angles. On the top there's a metal threshold, underneath that are two layers of plywood (which are cracked & splitting apart horizontally & vertically). The door sill is below the 2 layers out in front (not sure what it's sitting on). Vinyl siding covers whatever is under the sill. From eyeballing the plywood my guess is that it's at least 1-1/2" thick- possibly 2".

    1. Is it normal for the exterior sill to be that much lower than the threshold? (I'm pretty sure it's NOT normal for the plywood under the threshold to be exposed like that)
    2. When I do repairs, should I bring the sill up higher so the back is level with the plywood (or whatever substrate I use under the threshold) and slope it downward toward the outside?
    3. When I install the flooring, should the new flooring run under the threshold or should I cut it to go around the threshold? (or should I have some sort of filler under the threshold?)
    4. If I used a Suresill pan, how far back should it go & how far should it protrude out (if at all)?
    5. Can I overlap flashing on the top of the plywood under the threshold (so long as it is hidden)?

    I think I know the answers but I'm second-guessing myself & want to be sure.
    doorillsketch1.png

    I tried to post the other day but it's been raining so much my internet went out & it never posted.
     
  17. Nov 25, 2019 #57

    nealtw

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    This is the normal
    [​IMG]

    Soo if you have layers of plywood on the floor and you are leaving them there they should be extended out under the door, so it looks more like my picture with just a much thicker subfloor.
    It sounds like you have an out swing door so some cheating could be done but the ugly bits of plywood on the edge would have to be replaced with something that would look nice and match your finished floor.
    Confirm that the door is out swing.
     
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  18. Nov 26, 2019 #58

    zannej

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    Thanks, Neal.
    I'm not sure what exactly happened with how they cut things for the doorway. Maybe the subfloor used to go out further & got cut off, but it's hard to tell.
    The door is an INswing. The new door is also an inswing.
    When I take things apart I'm going to see what the situation is under the existing sill. I really think whoever installed the doorway in the first place didn't know what they were doing.

    I'm *still* waiting to get my tools from my friend. Every time I ask about it he changes the subject. I think one of his recent houseguests who was kicked out for stealing (as well as other issues) may have stolen my tools and he's afraid to tell me. I noticed my bag of tools wasn't where I left it & my box of Matrix attachments hasn't been seen in months. I haven't seen my compressor or nail gun even though he kept telling me it was in a specific room, but when I looked in that room, it wasn't there. I'm going to have to confront him about it & make sure he understands I'm not mad at him if the stuff did get stolen but that I need to know so I can get replacements. If they haven't been stolen, I want to bring all my tools back home so I don't have to worry about them getting stolen because he is not good at judging character on people and keeps letting moochers & thieves crash on his couch for weeks on end.
     
  19. Nov 27, 2019 #59

    nealtw

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    The measurement of the door you said was 81?high, inswing doors prehung with threshold are usually close to 83" high.
     
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  20. Nov 28, 2019 #60

    zannej

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