Replacing Older Electric Stove-Cord is hard-wired into Circuit Breaker Box

[vyacheslav]

Greetings,

I am replacing an old Jenn-Air stove, probably from the 1960's. The stove is in the middle of a long counter, and the new stove (an Amana electric) is the same exact width as the old Jenn-Air-29 7/8". The new stove needs the cord to be purchased seperatley, and I wasn't sure if I needed a 3 prong or 4 prong cord, so I told the store I would check and see what I needed (delivery is in 4 days). Well apparaently I need neither! The Jenn-Air cord goes down through the floor (because there is no room for a cord on/near the cabinets since the stove is a super tight fit). I followed the path because the basement has an open ceiling. It is very odd, but imagine where the stove cord enters the basement ceiling as home plate on a baseball diamond. The cord makes two left turns and goes to second base, where it enters a junction box. The cord leaving that junction makes two left turns and enters a second junction box (mere inches from where the stove cord enters the basement ceiling), and the second junction box goes directly to the circuit breaker box. Very odd. I don't know why they went all the way around just to end up at a second junction box, again mere inches away from where the cord enters the ceiling.

My guess is that I will need an electrician to install a 220V plug/receptacle on or very near that second junction box (and eliminate all the other rigamarole). I also assume that I can't just disconnect the wiring from the back of the Jenn-Air and use it on the Amana, because I assume it will be incompatible.

Can someone confirm or deny my suspicions? Can I use the existing wiring? Does code say there has to be a plug for safety? Obviously, I am making double sure the circuit is turned off before I or anyone else does anything. If a new plug/receptacle has to be installed, would it be 4 prong (I assume 4 prong is newer technology and code)?

I know a fair amount about electric work, but if it involves a 220 plug/wiring, I'm calling a professional!

Thanks for the help!

V

 

[Snoonyb]

I recall installing JENN-AIR'S with both BX, (brand named), now referred too as MC, (METAL CLAD), and NEMA corded, all 3 conductor, both directly behind the appliance and in an accessible side cab, as CA'S TITLE 24 changed.

Your description leads me to believe your existing, is hardwired.

Your vender can tell you which cord to use, or you can google the brand and model #, to ascertain if both hardwired and corded, options, are offered.

 

[PJB12]

If the stove has any 120 volt components (light, fan, etc.) the manufacturer will require 4-wires to comply with listing agency requirements (UL, ETL, etc.) NFPA 70 concurs.

If it has a built in receptacle outlet for general use, that might have to be GFI protected. (I'm not a residential guy & don't pay as good attention as I should with the residential stuff during code update classes.) Of course, having the outlet will require 4-wire circuit.

I recently ran a circuit for a friend's new Jenn-Air drop-in stove. It had no 120 volt components, therefore the manufacturer required only 3 conductors- two line & one equipment grounding conductor.

About hard wiring; it will be up to the manufacturer's instructions.
Some prohibit cord-and-plug, instead requiring the included high temperature cable whip be used. Some require cord & plug.

It all comes down to this: (From NFPA 70)
110.3 Examination, Identification, Installation, and Use
of Equipment.
(B) Installation and Use. Listed or labeled equipment
shall be installed and used in accordance with any instructions
included in the listing or labeling.

Note that if it is hardwired the disconnecting means has to be lockable. Circuit breakers are easy. Pull-out fuse blocks will require a lockable door over that part of the fuse panel or a lockable swing-down arm.

Let us know how the installation goes!
Paul

PS: Not to be picky, but the post about BX being MC isn't correct. This gets mixed up often.

BX is a brand name for a specific type of Armor Clad (AC) cable, not for Metal Clad (MC). BX was trademarked by the Greenfield company in the 1890's. The "X" stood for experimental. (I suppose AX cable failed?) Generic Armor Clad actually came several years after the brand BX was introduced by Greenfield in the 1890's. There were some minor differences.

BX became the ubiquitous term, just like Kleenex is used for facial tissue.

AC is covered by NFPA 70 at Article 320
MC is at Article 330.

Since the 1950's the most noticeable difference between AC and MC is that AC has a tracer strip for bonding and MC has a full sized, insulated ground.
Permitted usages also have many differences.



Just to confuse stuff more, Greenfield became the "Kleenex name" for flexible metal conduit (FMC).

 

[Snoonyb]

And, to muddy the waters even further, while adopting a specific code, each individual fiefdom, often, can and will, add more stringent requirements than the specific chapter in the code requires.

But, after the state adopts a national code, the fiefdom, cannot lessen those minimum code requirements.

If you are intending to contract this elec. work out, and for your own, as well as insurance purposes, you are recommended to do so, have it permitted.

As an example, LA County required elec. in garages, be in BX (brand name), because it was less subject to damage, than ROMEX, however, LA City, did not, and as time went by there became some mutuality in code compliance.

Also, BX has a max. 4 conductor, and has a bonding strip to allow the casing to be a grounding conductor. It does not contain a ground wire, and cannot be used in wet locations.

MC cable has a full size ground wire the casing is not a grounding conductor and can be used in wet locations.

MC is also availible as HFC cable which has a bonding strip as well as a full sized ground. This cable can be used in a patient care area or for an isloated ground circuit.

 

[PJB12]

Under the "New & Improved" edition of the NEC, only certain types of MC can be used in wet locations.

Typically, it has a PVC jacket. We also have to use specific fittings for it. When last I bought some, they were somewhere around $15.00 for ONE box connector. Yikes!

LTFMC (aka Sealtite) is suddenly looking mighty affordable.

I don't too much understand why the change. There are about 20 bazillion outdoor signs, rooftop exhaust, make up and air units and outdoor disconnects with whips made from grandpa's MC cable.

Note that manufacturers typically are well represented on the code committee, so go figure.

 

[Snoonyb]

As are the fire dept.

I found it interesting that, elec appliances of the 220V era, when mfg's started adding, 110V bells and whistles, some had a separate NEMA cord, then eventually they evolved to step-down transformers.

 

[PJB12]

Snoonyb mentioned getting a permit at Post #4. Thank You for mentioning this Snoonyb.

Permits are very important should there ever be a fire or injury. Insurance companies work very hard to get out pf paying claims. Should the adjuster figure out that non-permitted, non-green tagged work was performed on the premises, they can get off the payment hook. Even if the fire or injury had nothing to do with the non-permitted work, they can easily avoid payment.

The above is based on being an impartial witness in many, many tort and arbitration hearings over the course of 4 decades. (Working for the court or arbitration service, thus impartial)

Therefore it would be wise to listen to Snoonyb's advice and get a permit & inspections.

Most jurisdictions of which I'm aware will let you have a Homeowner's Permit if you can do the work yourself. They are inexpensive and most inspectors are very helpful if you make a mistake.

Paul


Example From A Few Years Ago-
One situation that comes to mind was an electrical shock injury to a heating service person from energized duct work. The wiring that energized the duct work was original to the house, thus a permit job.

Way over on the other side of the basement was a finished room. The adjuster saw something that caught her eye. She researched and found that that project was not done under permit. Nothing was wrong with the wiring.

Even though the finished room wiring had absolutely nothing to do with the energized duct work, the arbitrator ruled in the insurance company's favor and voided the claim. Subsequent tort action for reversal was denied by the court due to the arbitration clause in the insured policy.

The worker's compensation carrier also filed suit to get out of paying. The case went to tort action. The owners of the house had to pay medical expenses, lost wages, EMS service fees, court costs, attorney fees, etc.

Next a Pain & Suffering case was opened by the injured. I don't know the resolution of that separate case, as I was not called for that suit.

 

[Snoonyb]

LA Trade and Technical offers courses in code compliance for the building trades, and is a prerequisite for persons applying for inspector position, in both LA & OC.

In the city of LA proper, when applying for a homeowner permit for elec. you are written tested. Other fiefdoms will verbally question you. Folks will pull a homeowners permit, and then have an elec. preform the task, and the downside to that practice is, is that person insured.

There is a CA state statute passed which requires person preforming elec. repairs/installations to either be lic. or working for a lic. elec. contractor. The penalties are rather sever.

 

[PJB12]

LA Trade and Technical offers courses in code compliance for the building trades, and is a prerequisite for persons applying for inspector position, in both LA & OC.

In the city of LA proper, when applying for a homeowner permit for elec. you are written tested. Other fiefdoms will verbally question you. Folks will pull a homeowners permit, and then have an elec. preform the task, and the downside to that practice is, is that person insured.

There is a CA state statute passed which requires person preforming elec. repairs/installations to either be lic. or working for a lic. elec. contractor. The penalties are rather sever.

That sounds like a good system- except for the part about the homeowner getting the permit and the electrician doing the work. That's so wrong.

Around here, people often pay an electrician to get the permit and then do the work themselves. There's no way I'll "rent out" any of my licenses.

Unless thiongs have changed, in my area, most cities allow homeowner's electrical permits. There is no test nor education required. Perhaps one must show plans, but I don't know for certain.

Actually, I used a homeowner's for a project in my home because the homeowner's was $35.00. Under my license, it would have been a percentage of the project cost. The inspector recognized me. So much for the cheap permit fee!

 

[Snoonyb]

You couldn't choose the inspector. In the large METROS, in CA, they are divided into districts, and altered on a quarterly basis, to subvert corruption.

Some of the LA County ares were reputed.

As a side note, the assoc. of architects proposed an, "as adopted ordinance" to the CA ICBO BOARD that all plans for room additions must be submitted via an architect, which was designed to eliminate folks like me, who often did 3 plans an evening, @ $125, instead of the upwards of $1k fee for an arch. I know of only one fiefdom that opted for.

CA was and is, rife with whiz-bangs, of all stripes.

 

[PJB12]

You couldn't choose the inspector. In the large METROS, in CA, they are divided into districts, and altered on a quarterly basis, to subvert corruption.

Some of the LA County ares were reputed.

As a side note, the assoc. of architects proposed an, "as adopted ordinance" to the CA ICBO BOARD that all plans for room additions must be submitted via an architect, which was designed to eliminate folks like me, who often did 3 plans an evening, @ $125, instead of the upwards of $1k fee for an arch. I know of only one fiefdom that opted for.

CA was and is, rife with whiz-bangs, of all stripes.

I like the rotating inspector method! The inspectors from a large city here (that shall go nameless) get to know the tradespeople and then greet you with a "palm up handshake".

One electrical inspector actually told me that if one of my guys bought & delivered twenty-four 4 x 4 x 12 treated railroad ties to his house, he'd pass the job without coming out. To me, that is far more blatant than the hint for a bribe.

It is a real gyp that you can get cheated out of drawing plans. I'd rather any plan I was to build was drawn by somebody who actually knows how to build.

I revently did a project where the architect's drawings had a receptacle outlet and a light fixture 5 feet past the outside wall of the building, Four feet up in mid air. The engineer wasn't so great either. His plan called for a 75 kVA 480 volt primary x120/208 Y transformer. The problem was that load calculations came to a 350 kVA transformer and the primary is 13,200 volts. Oops! But he's the one with the PE certification, so what do I know?

 

[Snoonyb]

And they wonder why, folks who've worked in the trades, qualify as mental retards.