Why did the paint fail?

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goboso

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Maplewood, MN
I am looking to understand why this exterior paint failed, and whether the contractor's proposed solution (scrape and repaint only where paint is coming off) will be adequate. This professional paint contractor used Sherwin Williams Duration on my house and garage. A year later, the paint is failing on all four sides; both on the trim and cedar siding. The garage trim is failing but the paint on the garage siding (not cedar) seems fine. The painters brushed on the trim paint, then sprayed the house.

The house was painted on a day with no rain, and I don't think there was rain in the two days before or after. The contractor said he does 200+ home a year, and hasn't had this experience before. He seemed to point to failing paint underneath. His plan is to scrape the problem areas, then prime and paint again with a roller or brush. I'm imagining myself spending days every summer fixing this; I paid the contractor top dollar because I wanted a job well done.

Thanks so much for your help!
 

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My best guess is the surface was not clean before painting.

Did they wash the surfaces before painting ?

I wouldn't just repaint spots -- they will be visible.
 
From the pictures, the problem looks like extractive bleeding. This would occur when a latex paint is applied over cedar without first applying a stain suppressing primer. As Steve123 noted, it could also be due to latex being applied to poorly prepared surface. Was the cedar previously painted or stained?
 
My sincere apologies for letting this thread dangle with no reply from me! I simply got very bogged down in this process, but I do know that this is no excuse.

I think I assumed that the attached pics could be enlarged and viewers could see the alligatoring and cracking paint, so I was mystified by your replies. : ) A new photo taken at closer range has been included here.

To answer questions posted above: The surfaces were power washed, and flaking paint removed ahead of painting. The painter said he followed all recommended steps, but it appears that he had wrongly assumed oil paint had not been used. The paint was applied previous to the 24 years I've owned the house and I didn't think to alert him about the possiblity that oil-based paint had been used. Live and learn!

There was never stain on the cedar so no need to suppress stain for fear it would bleed through. After a lot of nudging, a Sherwin Williams person who oversees the reps came out to access. He said that the issue was Duration applied over old oil-based paint with no primer layer in between. He recommends sanding again and applying PrimeRX over the cracks that are not lifting off. He said that it will fill in cracks and hold everything on.

Fingers crossed! Thank you so much for your help. It is very appreciated.
 

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I am looking to understand why this exterior paint failed, and whether the contractor's proposed solution (scrape and repaint only where paint is coming off) will be adequate. This professional paint contractor used Sherwin Williams Duration on my house and garage. A year later, the paint is failing on all four sides; both on the trim and cedar siding. The garage trim is failing but the paint on the garage siding (not cedar) seems fine. The painters brushed on the trim paint, then sprayed the house.

The house was painted on a day with no rain, and I don't think there was rain in the two days before or after. The contractor said he does 200+ home a year, and hasn't had this experience before. He seemed to point to failing paint underneath. His plan is to scrape the problem areas, then prime and paint again with a roller or brush. I'm imagining myself spending days every summer fixing this Residential painting Bothell; I paid the contractor top dollar because I wanted a job well done.

Thanks so much for your help!
It's possible that the exterior paint failed due to a combination of factors such as inadequate surface preparation, environmental conditions, or issues with the paint itself. The proposed solution by the contractor to scrape and repaint where the paint is coming off may address the immediate problem, but it's important to determine the underlying cause to prevent future failures. Communicate your concerns with the contractor and ensure a thorough inspection of the substrate and underlying causes of the paint failure. Consider seeking a second opinion from another paint professional to ensure the best resolution.
 
It's possible that the exterior paint failed due to a combination of factors such as inadequate surface preparation, environmental conditions, or issues with the paint itself. The proposed solution by the contractor to scrape and repaint where the paint is coming off may address the immediate problem, but it's important to determine the underlying cause to prevent future failures. Communicate your concerns with the contractor and ensure a thorough inspection of the substrate and underlying causes of the paint failure. Consider seeking a second opinion from another paint professional to ensure the best resolution.
Nobes, thank you very much! I did seek more information from a very seasoned Sherwin connection and a second paint contractor. It was determined that the substrate included oil paint, and this incompatibility of paint created the main issue, which was alligatoring. The proposed solution is to scrape where paint is lifting, apply PrimeRX to the entire surface, and repaint. I'm told that that will do the trick! I very much appreciate the help I received on this forum.
 
I am looking to understand why this exterior paint failed, and whether the contractor's proposed solution (scrape and repaint only where paint is coming off) will be adequate. This professional paint contractor used Sherwin Williams Duration on my house and garage. A year later, the paint is failing on all four sides; both on the trim and cedar siding. The garage trim is failing but the paint on the garage siding (not cedar) seems fine. The painters brushed on the trim paint, then sprayed the house.

The house was painted on a day with no rain, and I don't think there was rain in the two days before or after. The contractor said he does 200+ home a year, and hasn't had this experience before. He seemed to point to failing paint underneath. His plan is to scrape the problem areas, then prime and paint again with a roller or brush. I'm imagining myself spending days every summer fixing this; I paid the contractor top dollar because I wanted a job well done.

Thanks so much for your help!
Update: I received second opinions from a very seasoned Sherwin connection and a second paint contractor. It was determined that the substrate included oil paint, and this incompatibility of paint created the main issue, which was alligatoring. The proposed solution is to scrape where paint is lifting, apply PrimeRX to the entire surface, and repaint. I'm told that that will do the trick! I very much appreciate the help I received on this forum.
 
It will help where the paint is losing adhesion, but the problem will still be there under places where the paint is still intact even with the primer over it. Old latex paints from the 60's would sometimes do this over unprimed oil paint. Sometimes a few years, sometimes decades but eventually it all comes off.

I've done houses where I had to keep coming back "playing catch-up" with new ares peeling and me touching them up until all the old paint was finally gone. This after aggressively scraping at the failing paint. Took a few years but after all the bad stuff was gone it doesn't happen again.
 
It will help where the paint is losing adhesion, but the problem will still be there under places where the paint is still intact even with the primer over it. Old latex paints from the 60's would sometimes do this over unprimed oil paint. Sometimes a few years, sometimes decades but eventually it all comes off.

I've done houses where I had to keep coming back "playing catch-up" with new ares peeling and me touching them up until all the old paint was finally gone. This after aggressively scraping at the failing paint. Took a few years but after all the bad stuff was gone it doesn't happen again.
Thanks so much. Your information is very appreciated, especially since this isn't what I was told by the Sherwin Williams expert and everyone else I talked with. Experience is the best teacher.

Checking what you said here--"I've done houses where I had to keep coming back "playing catch-up" with new ares peeling and me touching them up until all the old paint was finally gone." Are these cases in which you used PrimeRX?
 
Thanks so much. Your information is very appreciated, especially since this isn't what I was told by the Sherwin Williams expert and everyone else I talked with. Experience is the best teacher.

Checking what you said here--"I've done houses where I had to keep coming back "playing catch-up" with new ares peeling and me touching them up until all the old paint was finally gone." Are these cases in which you used PrimeRX?
No, TBH on repaints I rarely use primers without a specific reason or need to do so. Bonding primers and stainblockers are great where needed but a waste when not needed. If the surface underneath doesn't have a problem then paint will adhere just fine- that's what it's designed to do. Good paint sticks to good paint, nothing (including primers) sticks to bad paint as well as it should. New construction materials are a different game, and there primers are always recommended.

Prep-work is the key to painting, and covering problems (other than bleed-through) tends not to work well. You have to get bad paint off, or at least the parts which are bad like surface chalking, before you do anything else. Spot delamination can be caused by moisture, contaminants like oils, oils from the wood itself reaching the surface, etc. General delamination is a symptom of paint failure and whatever doesn't come off now will come off later; there is nothing which can restore or rectify the lost bonding except removal of the bad paint. The upside is that if you keep at it till all the old paint is gone, your problems should be over permanently.
 
An update: My wonderfully responsible painting contractor scraped what was peeling, primed with Sherwin Williams PrimeRX, and repainted, all at no charge. I am so fortunate (and he is so great)! The work was done on May 22nd. The original work was done in the fall of 2022. 1980-01-01 00.01.05.jpgI'll try and update this thread in a year of so.
 
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