How do we fix our healthcare system in America?

[frodo]

. You say its God's plan well you don't have to thumb through the bible too far to see how God thinks we should treat our fellow man. If Jesus Christ we're walking the earth today what plan do you think He'd support?

.

God says to help your fellow man, He does not say that the ACA is the way we should have health care

I posted that I think the community should take care of health issues and my comments are on the same path as Gods word
acts 20;35
Galatians 6:2

 

[nealtw]

God says to help your fellow man, He does not say that the ACA is the way we should have health care

I posted that I think the community should take care of health issues and my comments are on the same path as Gods word
acts 20;35
Galatians 6:2

Can you define how you are thinking "community" means

 

[frodo]

Can you define how you are thinking "community" means

sure ,

would be the town/ city you live in.
I believe welfare should be controlled by your state not the federal government and the town you live in

what better way to administer the help people need
the town knows more about your situation than the feds in Washington do

imo, the closer the help is to the person, the less fraud you will have

 

[nealtw]

sure ,

would be the town/ city you live in.
I believe welfare should be controlled by your state not the federal government and the town you live in

what better way to administer the help people need
the town knows more about your situation than the feds in Washington do

imo, the closer the help is to the person, the less fraud you will have

So a small coal mining town with the mine closed and the town dying and all the men have lung problems, they're on their own?

 

[frodo]

So a small coal mining town with the mine closed and the town dying and all the men have lung problems, they're on their own?

hyperbole much?

 

[nealtw]

hyperbole much?

:nono:..................:nono:

 

[frodo]

:nono:..................:nono:

a small town such as that would not have the resources to treat the black lung
with aca or any other type of medical care
they would naturally go to the nearest larger community

common sense should always be applied


back on topic
their benefits can be handled at the smaller community level

 

[nealtw]

a small town such as that would not have the resources to treat the black lung
with aca or any other type of medical care
they would naturally go to the nearest larger community

common sense should always be applied


back on topic
their benefits can be handled at the smaller community level

Maybe that was unfair, up here the black lung would be covered by WCB.

I think it will take a few more trys, a few more elections before you have a system.

 

[frodo]

Maybe that was unfair, up here the black lung would be covered by WCB.

I think it will take a few more trys, a few more elections before you have a system.

of course, it would be covered
that was not the topic nor the question

the discussion was on WHERE benefits would be administered FROM

NOT where treatment is provided or what is covered

 

[nealtw]

of course, it would be covered
that was not the topic nor the question

the discussion was on WHERE benefits would be administered FROM

NOT where treatment is provided or what is covered

Ours is backed by the feds but the province actually runs it, collects the money and pays the bills. Then we have area Health Authorities that I guess tweak what services we get and where.

 

[Chris]

How about having an aca that only covers catastrophic problem like car insurance and maintenance and check ups are covered by You?

 

[frodo]

How about having an aca that only covers catastrophic problem like car insurance and maintenance and check ups are covered by You?

that would be real insurance

 

[68bucks]

sure ,

would be the town/ city you live in.
I believe welfare should be controlled by your state not the federal government and the town you live in

what better way to administer the help people need
the town knows more about your situation than the feds in Washington do

imo, the closer the help is to the person, the less fraud you will have

I agree with you in regards that that for most things the closer you are to the problem the better you understand the solutions so coping at the community level is usually best for cost and outcome. Fraud possibilities go down too, that's why I don't donate to United Way but concentrate my charity to our church and local organizations. But on some things it is just difficult or plain not cost effective to handle that way insurance being among those, the costs are so astronomical. Insurance of course relies on spreading the risk over a large pool of healthy and sick so the larger the pool the lower the cost for everyone in it. Even taken on a state level the populations range from 30+ million to less than 1 million let alone if you tried to get to a county sort of level or something. One thing I don't know is how would diminishing returns apply to insurance. How much less cost would insurance be for a pool of 30 million vs 1 million? What about a pool of 350 million? What about a county with only 50,000 people? I have no idea.

I also differ a little on the idea of preventative care being included in the cost of insurance. You can separate that and pay out of pocket. It's not terribly expensive to pay cash to see the doc once a year for a physical or get to the dentist a couple times a year. However if people have to dig in their own pocket and shell out the cash you will for sure have less participation, I would guess buy a good margin. Preventative care will save cost by helping catch things early. Not to mention the human aspect of early detection of serious disease. So you can make a case that paying for the preventative care lowers the end cost any way.

 

[Chris]

I agree to a certain extent. The problem I see locally is people with insurance go to the doctor for every little thing, a cough, a sniffle, a pain in their toe. Every time I sit in the waiting room which is maybe 1 time a year it is full of people there for reasons I wouldn't bother leaving my house for. I wonder how much waste there is with people going for not any good reason?

 

[zannej]

I agree to a certain extent. The problem I see locally is people with insurance go to the doctor for every little thing, a cough, a sniffle, a pain in their toe. Every time I sit in the waiting room which is maybe 1 time a year it is full of people there for reasons I wouldn't bother leaving my house for. I wonder how much waste there is with people going for not any good reason?

I think it all depends on the people. There are some who go in too much and there are some who don't go in enough. I know that Medicaid discourages regular checkups to an extent and my friends who have it end up going to the hospital or taking their kids to the hospital because Medicaid is not accepted by some of the local doctors and the clinics are hours away.

 

[nealtw]

I think it all depends on the people. There are some who go in too much and there are some who don't go in enough. I know that Medicaid discourages regular checkups to an extent and my friends who have it end up going to the hospital or taking their kids to the hospital because Medicaid is not accepted by some of the local doctors and the clinics are hours away.

And it is the cost of the hospital that you want to get away from.

 

[zannej]

And it is the cost of the hospital that you want to get away from.

Exactly. Now that my mother was forced to get Medicare (her regular insurance informed her that they were going to cut back on the coverage-- without reducing her premiums-- because she was eligible for Medicare and that Medicare would cover certain things; so now she has to pay even more to have Mediare), she has to go to the hospital for bloodwork and they charge twice as much as the doctor's office. She constantly complains that they would save money if they let her get it done at the doctor's office, but the system is retarded.

 

[frodo]

Exactly. Now that my mother was forced to get Medicare (her regular insurance informed her that they were going to cut back on the coverage-- without reducing her premiums-- because she was eligible for Medicare and that Medicare would cover certain things; so now she has to pay even more to have Mediare), she has to go to the hospital for bloodwork and they charge twice as much as the doctor's office. She constantly complains that they would save money if they let her get it done at the doctor's office, but the system is retarded.

they can not do that,

they tried with me, I told them to bugger off.

I am a vet, but refuse to go to the VA because they make you wait for everything.
humanna got pissey when they found out.
and tried to force me to quit.

 

[zannej]

they can not do that,

they tried with me, I told them to bugger off.

I am a vet, but refuse to go to the VA because they make you wait for everything.
humanna got pissey when they found out.
and tried to force me to quit.

I do not blame you one bit on the VA. I used to drive my elderly veteran friends to the VA for appointments. They would be told to be there at 8am or earlier and they wouldn't be seen for hours. I had to say something to one of the clerks once because my diabetic friend was getting low blood sugar (since he had to fast for bloodwork) to get them to see him. And the wheelchairs never had foot supports. The treatment was abysmal as well. All of the veterans I know have complained about how they don't get proper treatment. And don't get me started on the facilities-- nearest one to me has all sorts of fancy woodwork and plaques congratulating themselves displayed in the entryways but none of the wheelchairs have foot rests.

I wish my mother had actually stood up to Blue Cross/Blue Shield and told them that she would not accept reduced coverage because they wanted her to spend more money to get Medicaid. And to add insult to it, they raised her premiums and are charging her the rate of having a family plan even though she's the only one on it. BC used to pay for her sleep apnea equipment, her diabetic supplies, blood tests etc.. but now they refuse and she has to get that stuff through Medicare. When she got Medicare, the sleep center told her they didn't accept it and she would have to start getting her supplies elsewhere. She hasn't found another supplier yet and she needs new CPAP masks. And unlike BC, Medicare makes pharmacies jump through hoops and have all sorts of paperwork to get glucose test strips approved. It took over a month for her to get the strips because Medicare kept rejecting the paperwork faxed by the doctor. I finally had to have the pharmacy staff fill out the paperwork and mark where the doctor needed to sign, drive to the doctor's office, got the doctor to sign it, then drove back to the pharmacy and hand delivered the paperwork to make sure they got it. I get they don't want people taking advantage of Medicare and getting really expensive stuff, but then they waste money with the hospital visits.
I think single payer would be much simpler because then you wouldn't run in to the problem of the insurance companies arguing over who should pay what and having both refuse saying the other is responsible (which is what happened to my uncle).

 

[bud16415]

I think single payer would be much simpler because then you wouldn't run in to the problem of the insurance companies arguing over who should pay what and having both refuse saying the other is responsible

You are right about single payer being simpler. What they will tell you is we don’t cover that and that’s it. You won’t have a better plan to look for or turn to, you will get what you get and they will pay for what they will pay for. What you are talking about is socialized medical for all run by the same folks that run the VA. The VA is a great example actually of a government run program is like.

Health care as sad and hard as this sounds is not a right in this country it is a commodity just like owning a home or a car. No one is entitled to it and if you want it you must figure out a way to get it. The people selling it are free to offer their version of the product at a price they can make a profit at and also one the market can bear. Rich people can buy nicer and safer cars or nicer and safer homes. It is their reward for being rich no matter how they came about becoming rich. Maybe they won the lotto or worked hard or had rich parents. We are individuals that are all born with the same freedom to do as little or as much with our lives as we can. There is a price for that kind of freedom and it is people that have more or do more to have more are rewarded with the better car or home or healthcare.

As mentioned above people should be compassionate for their fellow man and help the less privileged. This is the concept of the individual or the group. Our country is founded on the idea of the individual and others formed their governments around the group. We have a republic that understands or did understand the government should take the smallest possible influence over the individual. We have laws and we pull together for some common goods.

Right now the debate is healthcare and is it something for the common good to be run by the government like the roads and the army, or is it something that should be left to the people to do on their own as free enterprise. All the things mentioned about how bad the system is now lead you to think it would have to be better as a government run single payer system. We don’t know the bad in that yet as the only thing we have close to compare it to is the VA and Medicare.