Car charger

Help Support House Repair Talk:

swimmer_spe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
832
Reaction score
151
An electric vehcile car charger, what are they rated? Amps for 220 volts?
 

Guzzle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
501
Reaction score
158
Location
Maryland
Some do 40A @ 250v which is 10kW. If your battery is 85kWh it'll take ~8.5 hrs. to charge.

The F150 truck battery stores ~150kWh of energy & may take 16 hrs. to charge unless they really pump some charge into the thing. In that case I'd say they are trading battery lifetime for fast charging.
 
Last edited:

swimmer_spe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
832
Reaction score
151
Some do 40A @ 250v which is 10kW. If your battery is 85kWh it'll take ~8.5 hrs. to charge.

The F150 truck battery stores ~150kWh of energy & may take 16 hrs. to charge unless they really pump some charge into the thing. In that case I'd say they are trading battery lifetime for fast charging.
I'll be building a garage and want to future proof it.
 

Guzzle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
501
Reaction score
158
Location
Maryland
Depending on the size of your house, you'll probably need 200A service for your main panel.
A 100A sub panel seems to be popular.
 

Snoonyb

Lifetime Supporter
Lifetime Supporter
Joined
Sep 30, 2006
Messages
4,604
Reaction score
1,012
Battery Tech. is evolving, in part, due to the expense of the component. In some cases it's an improvement, and a detractor. The + is it alowes you the charge too 100%, where the existing is recommended to be 80-90%. In some cases, you'll sacrifice about 10mi. of range.

Both GM and Ford are partnering with battery suppliers.

Here are some view points;
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a38414682/tesla-new-cheaper-battery/

https://insideevs.com/features/530555/tesla-model3-lfp-battery-details/

 
Last edited:

Guzzle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
501
Reaction score
158
Location
Maryland
House is already wired for 200A.
Good start.

For the near future, if I load our 200A panel to 160A I can expect a 3.3% voltage drop at the panel, 232V/116v from 240v/120v.
An outlet 100' or 200' away needs some number crunching.

What is the minimum input voltage your candidate charger can stand?
What distance from your main panel?

How many vehicles charged at the same time?
Largest vehicle charged?
Look B4 you leap.
 

swimmer_spe

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 29, 2015
Messages
832
Reaction score
151
Good start.

For the near future, if I load our 200A panel to 160A I can expect a 3.3% voltage drop at the panel, 232V/116v from 240v/120v.
An outlet 100' or 200' away needs some number crunching.

What is the minimum input voltage your candidate charger can stand?
What distance from your main panel?

How many vehicles charged at the same time?
Largest vehicle charged?
Look B4 you leap.
We currently have 3 ICE vehicles. I can see us one day only have 2 vehicles, and both being electric. My plan is when I build our new garage, to have the amperage available for the future purchases of EVs. The garage will be closer to the pole. Something I am seriously considering is putting a 300A panel in the garage, then run a 200A breaker to the house. The house has the wires underground, and the garage will be quite close to that line. I figure if I am going to build for the future, may as well do it with the build, then retrofitting everything.
 

Guzzle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
501
Reaction score
158
Location
Maryland
100A @ 240v = 24kW.
If the vehicle battery charge rate is limited to 8 kW it'll take ~3 hours to bring up a 24 kWh vehicle battery.

There are several tradeoffs here.

Tesla batteries might have 80 kWh capacity. By now battery sizes & charge rates might have stabilized due to consumer supply & demand.
 

Sparky617

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
1,789
Reaction score
703
Location
Cary NC
I put in a 50amp range outlet with a 50amp GFCI breaker. I don't have an EV yet, but that's what my friend with a Tesla installed. He uses the portable charger cord and not a dedicated charger. That is pretty common among EV owners. Even at 220v 50amp it is slower than having an inverter because you're using the car's built in inverter. But unless you're getting home nearly empty every day it really won't matter. With a 220V 50amp input it will be easily charged overnight with typical daily use. Even if you have an all electric fleet, you likely won't need to take them all from zero to full charge every night. With typical driving the car will be recharged in a few hours overnight.
 

Sparky617

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
1,789
Reaction score
703
Location
Cary NC
100A @ 240v = 24kW.
If the vehicle battery charge rate is limited to 8 kW it'll take ~3 hours to bring up a 24 kWh vehicle battery.

There are several tradeoffs here.

Tesla batteries might have 80 kWh capacity. By now battery sizes & charge rates might have stabilized due to consumer supply & demand.
Without installing an inverter you're limited by the internal inverter.
 

Guzzle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
501
Reaction score
158
Location
Maryland
Sounds like I could do this with just my existing panel & maybe even with just a 100A main panel. Rarely do we pull 60A from our panel, our furnace & water heater are NG.
Our average draw is 6A, 1.5 kW.
 

Sparky617

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
1,789
Reaction score
703
Location
Cary NC
Sounds like I could do this with just my existing panel & maybe even with just a 100A main panel. Rarely do we pull 60A from our panel, our furnace & water heater are NG.
Our average draw is 6A, 1.5 kW.
I'll probably not live to see it, but if the greens get their all electric way, gas heating, cooking, and water heating will eventually go away. Some places in California are prohibiting new gas connections. Often CA leads the way, and not in a good way, for the rest of the country.
 

bud16415

Fixer Upper
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
6,611
Reaction score
2,550
Location
Erie, PA
I had a guy I work with that built a total electric home about 40 years ago and he had time of use rates and his hot water and other things were set to store a lot of hot water on non peak times plus his wife timed when she would do laundry and such to take advantage of the lower rates. He had a complex time of day meter that kept track of power but also when it was used.

I wonder if they still do this and when all these cars get hooked up will the peak hours move? Do any of you guys planning EVs have time of day meters?
 

Sparky617

Member
Joined
Nov 3, 2014
Messages
1,789
Reaction score
703
Location
Cary NC
I had a guy I work with that built a total electric home about 40 years ago and he had time of use rates and his hot water and other things were set to store a lot of hot water on non peak times plus his wife timed when she would do laundry and such to take advantage of the lower rates. He had a complex time of day meter that kept track of power but also when it was used.

I wonder if they still do this and when all these cars get hooked up will the peak hours move? Do any of you guys planning EVs have time of day meters?
I had Time of Day metering in my first house. I had a simple timer on my electric water heater to take advantage of it. That was over 35 years ago, and haven't had it since. A lot of EVs have the ability to time when they start charging to take advantage of off-peak pricing. As far as I know it isn't an option in my area, but we have gas heat, clothes dryer, gas cooking, and water heating along with a gas fireplace. They do have an option that allows them to control my AC unit during high demand times. I haven't signed up for that because the savings just aren't that great. Like $25 a year.
 

bud16415

Fixer Upper
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
6,611
Reaction score
2,550
Location
Erie, PA
For the heck of it I googled how many registered cars there are in the US.

Google says 290,000,000. that’s roughly one per person. Of those google says there are 1,000,000 EVs and by 2025 there will be 18,000,000. At some point lets say we reach 50% EVs likely the number of cars that people actually drive daily would be my guess.



So will the power grid we have today support 150,000,000 EV at home charging stations along with the rest of the electric grid demands? Will the clean energy production be able to be ramped up enough without going nuclear to met the demand? Will we be still burning fossil fuels to make electric and capturing and storing the carbon? Right now google tells me that 61% is fossil fuel.

Who wants to do the math?
 

bud16415

Fixer Upper
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
Joined
Feb 5, 2013
Messages
6,611
Reaction score
2,550
Location
Erie, PA
I had Time of Day metering in my first house. I had a simple timer on my electric water heater to take advantage of it. That was over 35 years ago, and haven't had it since. A lot of EVs have the ability to time when they start charging to take advantage of off-peak pricing. As far as I know it isn't an option in my area, but we have gas heat, clothes dryer, gas cooking, and water heating along with a gas fireplace. They do have an option that allows them to control my AC unit during high demand times. I haven't signed up for that because the savings just aren't that great. Like $25 a year.
A couple years ago I put in a water heater for her grandmother she got for free from the power company It was a monster and had the ability to be shut off by the power company when demand was high. Far as I know she never got shut off or it was so short the stored water bridged the gap.
 

Guzzle

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 24, 2021
Messages
501
Reaction score
158
Location
Maryland
I had a guy I work with that built a total electric home about 40 years ago and he had time of use rates and his hot water and other things were set to store a lot of hot water on non peak times plus his wife timed when she would do laundry and such to take advantage of the lower rates.
We take an average of 6A from our 200A, 240v service.
If we had a flywheel spun up to 100,000 RPM in a vacuum with magnetic bearings [almost no loss], we could take 200A for 43 minutes or 100A for 86 minutes, each 24 hrs.
 
Top