Drainage tile an option?

Discussion in 'Framing and Foundation' started by Kevincbus, Jan 4, 2017.

  1. Jan 4, 2017 #1

    Kevincbus

    Kevincbus

    Kevincbus

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    Hey guys first time poster. I bought a house about a year ago and I have some water infiltrating my basement during rain. Nothing the drain and a dehumidifier cant handle on moat occasions. I'm concerned for the long term problems.

    I'm entertaining the idea of placing drainage tile roughly 3 feet deep surrounding my house and going to the street. Im intending to tear up my out door patio to do so on the front and cutting through the driveway as well.

    Let me also give you a set up of my house... The basement is unique as it was originally a poured foundation and a crawl space (so I've been told) that was later dug out into a semi "full" basement with block placed. There is a shelf that comes up about 4 ft and a ledge that will take you to the original foundation.

    The outside-the problem. The back and side of the house is about 3 to 5 ft from an ally way. This is where most of the water comes from. I'm assuming it's running off the ally way into the soil and coming into the basement. Behind the house a huge pothole i believe is the cause of a lot of issues.

    The water- for the most part- only comes through the bottom of the foundation roughly 6 ft down.

    One thing to note: the garage and front attached patio are additions that have no basement underneath.

    So will drainage tile at 3 feet deep actually help me or do I need to go all the way to the base of the block foundation? Also, given the current structure of the basement is this necessary? I don't have many cracks in the upper foundation but the block seems to have had some swelling in the past.


    Thanks everyone!


    Image 1:
    This is the problem area. You can see two downspouts coming out right where I get the most water. I know at the very least I want to connect these and take them down to the road. I know this will solve some issues. Ideally I would like to connect the downspouts right into the drainage tile underground.

    Image 2: This area is the garage. It gets some water infiltration but not as bad as others. Most comes around the downspout. I would like to do the same as what I suggested for the above but taking it the other direction. The concrete that is surely holding the electrical post is in the way of connecting it all as one.

    Image 3: this is the other side. I only get issues in either corner.

    Image 4: Front: Only issues coming from the corners again. The front entrance is an additional patio. No basement underneath. I can take an additional picture if anyone thinks it would be helpful.

    Image 5: This basement shot shows the corner with the electrical post. It is the biggest issue. I get leaks coming through the stairs. I'm fairly certain that is because of the ally way ponding water and the tile WILL help here.

    Image 6: this image show the distinction between the block and poured foundation. Only at the stairs is it all poured.

    Image 7: THis is the only concerning location in all of the poured foundation. there are some cracks but nothing too concerning. This appears to have been this way for some time.

    Image 8: You can see the shelf I have referred to here. at this spot I have found a small hole in one of the shelves. I have put a coat hanger down there and noticed dirt. This was 2 feet away from the poured foundation. i don't entirely understand what is going on with.

    Image 9: area in front corner (by garage and driveway) that has significant water during heavy rain.

    Again my plan is to install drainage tile 3' down and connect all the downspouts. I want to start two separate lines that meet in the front of the house. I want to start at the electrical post and take it towards the driveway then through the driveway and then another around the house through the patio, meeting under the patio (i'm redoing the patio) and taken all the way to the street down the yard (or make a drainage basin in the middle of the yard if I can't make it out there). Does anyone think this would actually work?

    PS- My plan for the tile is to use fabric and 57 washed stone or larger covering at least 3" above the pipe. I am considering more stone than that.

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 5, 2017
  2. Jan 5, 2017 #2

    nealtw

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    I think the answer would have to be maybe!!
    That would be a lot of work if it didn't work and maybe worse if it worked for a while.
    What would be hard to prove is if you water proof the soil and drain it at 3 ft , will that stop the water from further away from coming in under the drain.
    BTW The new system which makes more sense is to run a perforated pipe to pick up ground water and separate solid pipe for the downspouts. The one pipe system can distribute roof water into the ground where you don't want it.
    Blocks if they are not full of concrete can fill with water before they find a hole into the basement so even if you can see where the water is coming from you don't know at what level it is entering the block.
    The normal fix would be one of two, 1. waterproof the outside to lower than the floor, but areas like the garage the footing will not be as deep so the waterproofing should be on the wall between the garage and the house.
    2. cut the floor and trench around the inside drill some holes in the block to allow water in and hang a waterproof curtain against the wall. and repair the floor.
    With a separate drain for downspout and around garage.
     
  3. Jan 5, 2017 #3

    slownsteady

    slownsteady

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    I'm not a big fan of interior drainage, although I can see the point in it. I had minor water problems in my basement (block foundation) which I chose to fix from the outside. I hired an excavator to dig the trench, but I did the rest myself. I put the drain tiles at the bottom of basement wall and i used sheet drain on the outside face of the wall to catch and direct any ground water down to the drain tile (aka french drain).
    https://duckduckgo.com/?q=sheet+dra...roducts/foundation_civil/img/3d_drain_000.jpg
     
  4. Jan 5, 2017 #4

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    I have seen his plan used before but it was between two houses , they sloped down from both houses and put plastic down and drain in the middle.
    This might be a good first step, and getting the downspout water out of there might do it. But plan B would still be the inside.
     
  5. Jan 5, 2017 #5

    Kevincbus

    Kevincbus

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    Thanks for the input. I never considered id have a chance f making it worse by putting water whwre I don't want it with the downspouts. I'll definitely use a two pipe system for that. I think I have a good shot at the rear of the house but I agree that the drainage around the garage may not do much since it will be 10ft or so away frpm where I'm getting the water. I can't realistically access this. I am also against interior drainage as I don't understand what it solves. I'm worried about settling and the structural integrity of my home. If I allow water to initrate and deal with it after it is inside I haven't really solved anything have i? I honestly don't care about the water as the basement is so small and the storage area stays dry. If it won't cause issues I wouldn't fix it. Am I wrong in my thoughts regarding interior drainage? And to clarify my original post I do intend to use french drains with rock surrounding it, and fabric around the rock.
     
  6. Jan 5, 2017 #6

    nealtw

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    If your system works and keeps water away from the house, the garage would be fine too.
    I would slope your trench down away from the house and lay poly sheeting down to catch all water near the house, lay the perforated pipe at the bottom.
    Over that lay that real heavy landscape fabric they use under gravel and back fill. That way all the water within the distance to the house is gone and not running down the foundation..

    The deal inside works but usually needs a sump pump too. The curtain it is to direct the water to the drain below the floor. The block wall can fill with water and the weight of wet soil behind the wall can add pressure and work against the wall structure. so the solve for that is to drill into the center of the block and let everything drain. The curtain keeps the basement dry.

    waterproofing-hamilton.jpg
     
  7. Jan 5, 2017 #7

    Kevincbus

    Kevincbus

    Kevincbus

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    Thanks for the advice, should I lay fabric in the trench before I lay the stone and pipe? And what is the poly sheeting?


    One more question regarding the interior- I understand it would stop the swelling, but wouldn't it increase settling? Running water carrys setiment into your basement, presumably removing it from around your foundation. Overtime wouldn't this cause issues? I've always been told running water is an issue.

    I really appreciate your help.
     
  8. Jan 5, 2017 #8

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    Something like this maybe thicker.
    https://www.amazon.ca/s/?ie=UTF8&ke...&hvtargid=kwd-18781307&ref=pd_sl_88rx00qes1_b
    The poly or plastic sheeting is to keep the ground below the trench dry so the pipe and gravel go above that, the fabric is to keep the gravel free from dirt, like a filter.
    Settling or wash out would be a problem under the footing. If water is working it's way in now, it shouldn't get to more than that, you are just giving a path to go to dry everything out. You would not ever get the flow require to move that much dirt. Unless you had a much bigger problem.

    But I am with you. As on the outside you want to pipe the downspout water away adding the surface drain is just not that much more work. And just keep the inside drain system in the back pocket as a last back up plan.
     
  9. Jan 5, 2017 #9

    nealtw

    nealtw

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    This is similar to the fabric I was talking about. It feels like fiberglass and is about 1/8" thick, I don't know what it is made out of.
     

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