Only when incorrectly approached.
Some of the balance of your suppositions regarding the failure of this structure are marginal at best.
Garage Tilting
- Thread starter biddlecom
- Start date
Help Support House Repair Talk:
Only when incorrectly approached.
Some of the balance of your suppositions regarding the failure of this structure are marginal at best.
nealtw
Contractor retired
Bud, You are making to many assumptions here.
Before you can just lift you have to understand all the stresses on a building.
Gravity is never discussed as such as it is usually the root cause, what we look for are all the effects.
In order to asses a structure we have to know the structure and it's design failures.
If we jump in and jack something up or pull it into place we assuming that the foundation is the only problem.
In this case we are most likely dealing with frost heave which may have taken it past your starting point.
If you google sagging valley rafters you will find a couple roofs constructed like this one, add to that there are no rafter ties in the front section.
We have no idea how many cycles of frost movement this has been thru.
The home owner is here because he knows he doesn't know what he doesn't know, so we can't assume he know enough to do anything safely. We have to inform him of everything that is going on, what can be done what should be done and what can't be done.
He is our eyes and ears so we have to educate him on what to look for and use his answers to give him our best advice.
Before you can just lift you have to understand all the stresses on a building.
Gravity is never discussed as such as it is usually the root cause, what we look for are all the effects.
In order to asses a structure we have to know the structure and it's design failures.
If we jump in and jack something up or pull it into place we assuming that the foundation is the only problem.
In this case we are most likely dealing with frost heave which may have taken it past your starting point.
If you google sagging valley rafters you will find a couple roofs constructed like this one, add to that there are no rafter ties in the front section.
We have no idea how many cycles of frost movement this has been thru.
The home owner is here because he knows he doesn't know what he doesn't know, so we can't assume he know enough to do anything safely. We have to inform him of everything that is going on, what can be done what should be done and what can't be done.
He is our eyes and ears so we have to educate him on what to look for and use his answers to give him our best advice.
I agree with all that I wasn’t setting forth a plan of action or even suggesting action just that all the links in the wobbly structure are the right lengths and came from a condition that was one time stable. If you go back to the markup I made about 20 pages back I showed adding diagonal stability during the event any lifting is done as controlling those movements would allow the lift to happen in a controlled way. I wasn’t suggesting a plan of action again only some food for thought for the OP. in fact I was the one that said do not attempt to lift the whole thing as shown in that video because they were lifting a stable building straight up. This building is not yet stable. IMO putting in say rafter ties now would stabilize the roof before a lift but would also lock them into an unnatural shape and then the lift would cause stress where you don’t want it.
Now keep going with what your plan is for him.
Now keep going with what your plan is for him.
nealtw
Contractor retired
That is correct but you do have to understand the stresses and forces so you know where to put braces and it has to make sense to to homeowner.
Unless we ask questions we don't find problems like this and then we can't explain the problem.
Okay I know the drawing is confusing but this is what I’m planning. The red lines are 2x4’s, I have 11 total. There will be 3 on the outside right and 3 on the outside left side. They will be placed where the ceiling cross beams are. Then I have 5 on the inside. 3 underneath the middle of the cross beams and 2 underneath the front garage door. The little red lines on the right outside floor are 4 foot stakes I place last summer. The 2 yellow strips are 2x10’s one on the outside left wall, inside left wall, outside right wall, and inside left wall. I will use those for bracing when jacking up the building. The blue line will be my chain and come along. What does everyone think?
slownsteady
Well-Known Member
I don't think the chain and come-along should take the place of a solid wood diagonal member. First, in order for it to be tight enough to help it would be putting additional forces on the structure, potentially pulling down on that corner. Second, it will need constant adjustment as the building moves. On the other hand, if the come-along is intended to pull the structure back to square, I would anchor to the ground further away from the building, so that the force is more lateral than vertical.
General question, which i may have missed earlier; are the two side walls parallel to each other? If not, should they be adjusted before the building is un-leaned?
General question, which i may have missed earlier; are the two side walls parallel to each other? If not, should they be adjusted before the building is un-leaned?
slownsteady
Well-Known Member
understood, but the chain & come-along would still need to be angled so that that the horizontal pull would be maximized and the vertical pull minimized if he's using it to square up the structure. And, as a brace I think it is too flexible.
slownsteady
Well-Known Member
should be some insights here:
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...2173&showall=1
http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/s...2173&showall=1
Yeah I would be using it to help straighten out the garage. Also the link you provided in the post is not coming up.
The reason the blue line is going to the lower corner is because there is no higher ridged bearing point to attach to. If his neighbor would allow him to run a cable over to their house or yard for support that would produce less of a vertical force vector for sure. The redeeming thing is the force to pull and support the wall at the top is way less than the force to lift it and the roof. So as drawn if it is at 45 degrees to get one pound of force inward the blue line would have to pull 1.414 pounds and that would add one pound to the jacking beam shown in yellow. Say it takes 10 ton to lift the corner and you need 1 ton to pull the top over the jack would see 11 ton.
Adjustable cables going both directions can act as stability control also. The blue one shown will keep the building from going to the left but wont help with the right. During the lift all those other braces will be fighting the movement IMO.
Adjustable cables going both directions can act as stability control also. The blue one shown will keep the building from going to the left but wont help with the right. During the lift all those other braces will be fighting the movement IMO.
I have to put some kind of bracing up.
slownsteady
Well-Known Member
go to garagejournal.com, navigate to the forum and search "My leaning garage fix". Use the quotes. You may have to fill in the anti-bot code window to show that you are human.
slownsteady
Well-Known Member
The red 2x4s on the right side would almost definitely fight against any effort to straighten the structure, as they would resist against the pull of the chain. The anchor point for the chain (just calling it chain for brevity, but including come-along) should be at least as far away as the base of the 2x4s on that side...further would be better. I can just imagine the roof being pulled down as easily as the side being straightened.
The red 2x4s on the left would have to be walked up and replanted with each 'degree' of un-tilting, unless they can be counted on to plant themselves as they get dragged forward.
The red 2x4s on the left would have to be walked up and replanted with each 'degree' of un-tilting, unless they can be counted on to plant themselves as they get dragged forward.
nealtw
Contractor retired
this list included everyone that has been here.
These are the people that came in good faith and tried to help, we may disagree on what can and should be done, but that does not take away from their time and effort.
You have been asked for measurement, levels and running a string for a reference point.
You did put level against one corner to measure the lean.
That camera is not going to fix this thing. It takes understanding, planning, and a whole lot of hard work.
Understanding isn't saying hmm isn't there something easier.
I understand what you are saying. I have been getting many different opinions and answers from many different people on and off the forum. Im attempting to piece all of it together and come up with a plan. I finally have my plan and will attempt to execute it.
Im going to brace and jack up the left corner just a bit so I can investigate that poll and reset it. From there ill pull the wall so its back where it should be then ill brace it the wall against the house so it doesn't move back. Then I will fill in the back garage door and strengthen the front garage door. After that I will fix and brace what parts of the roof I need to (Also may want to replace some of the beams). Then I would like to continue jacking up around the garage and replacing the 6x6 plates with 6x6 pressure treated.
Thats it. Not sure what else to say.
Okay so I pulled out the concrete post and its only about 3' tall. Should I replace it with a 4' one? That means the rest of the tubes around the building are 3 feet as well but none of them have moved? Should I just put the 3 foot one back in, square the building and reinforce the garage door way?
So the way it is set up now is the concrete poles are were the orange arrows are. Should I set it up more like the red tubes? I remember seeing someone post a suggestion like this on the forum but I cant find the post.
Around here 3’ depth would be fine 9 out of 10 years and most recommend 4’ to be save. The last couple winters we had -30 temps for a week straight and 4’ wasn’t enough as my little add on mud room is built that way and the door lifted. We don’t know what your climate is like but seeing as how the building only failed in that one corner I would leave well enough alone on the ones that have been working especially in a garage.
I do think a bearing point under the corner is better than placed midway between two points. Two on both sides would be better and one big one across that short distance would be best.
How did the jacking and moving go?
I do think a bearing point under the corner is better than placed midway between two points. Two on both sides would be better and one big one across that short distance would be best.
How did the jacking and moving go?
So I was talking to my father in law and he suggested putting cinder blocks down there and filling them in with concrete and rebar. They are wider and will cover more rather then having two separate concrete poles for each side.
The jacking up went fine but I haven't moved it yet. Im still trying to figure that part out. I will be attempting the move today.
