Health Care in America

Discussion in 'General Chit-Chat' started by Nestor_Kelebay, Mar 22, 2010.

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  1. Mar 24, 2010 #21

    travelover

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    My perspective is that as long as campaigns are paid for with corporate money and members of congress have to run every two years, you will continue to get more of the same. It has been suggested that campaigns be publicly funded but no one wants to see politicians get money "for free". So instead, the corporations rip the public off big time (example: $7000 yearly per person health costs) and give a few million to the politicians and everyone is happy.

    Look at it this way, if a presidential campaign was tax payer funded, you could give each candidate $300 million to spend at a cost of just $1 per person every 4 years. We get screwed out of that everyday before breakfast. :D
     
  2. Mar 24, 2010 #22

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    Here's the deal of the boondoggle we managed to get ourselves in. Free market unregulated capitalism doesn't work."But fun it's worked for years"

    Shut up, no it hasn't.

    Capitalism in perspective of the constitution doesn't consider industrialization. With industrialization came all kinds of wonderful things. Like a need to regulate capitalism. Unchecked it runs amok raping villagers and burning there huts to the ground, but we need those people so what do we do? We regulate it.
    The problem is insurance companies were allowed to exist without any real regulation in fact they managed to exist without the regulations we had in place like anti trust laws. Say what you will about socialism and communism. The reality is that those two systems aid the every man (which most of us are.). Now I want to go on record as saying I'm not socialist or communist. I am a realist. Existing in this day and age without severe reform in medicine and insurance is going to lead us all to personnel bankruptcy, and it has. What moral obligation do we have to our neighbor? None, but you have to take care of your self, and that can't happen in our current predicament. I commend and condemn the Dems on capital hill. Something had to be done. Maybe not this, but aside from regulating an industry that will refuse regulation what other alternatives do we have? It's a catch22 all the way around. The "Conservatives" with a couple of exceptions weren't doing anything, in fact they were helping to further cement the bond between Washington and insurance companies which is the greatest evil. We have horrible options before us but it's our own fault. You don't bite the hand that feeds you, unless it's feeding you poison and as Americans we consumed that poison with little complaint. Now that we don't like it we know no other way. Any attempt to fix this boondoggle will be met with opposition because that's what America is. Opposition. We have the right and it's about the only one all of us use.
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2010
  3. Mar 25, 2010 #23

    Bud Cline

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    Still lotsa pecans in Texas!:)
     
  4. Mar 25, 2010 #24

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    You better believe it. ;)
     
  5. Mar 25, 2010 #25

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    I dunno if you guys are getting the same information we are on this side of the border, but according to our news there have been over 10 Democrats that have asked the DC police or the FBI for protection because they have been getting death threats over the phone from people.

    Apparantly, lots of people are upset enough over this health care reform that they've been threatening the people they hold responsible for it.

    I think that if people are that upset about it, then maybe now isn't the right time to do it. Still, it seems to me that threatening your local politicians isn't any way to accomplish anything, and just makes things worse.
     
  6. Mar 26, 2010 #26

    Bud Cline

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    That's just the way that goes, I'm kinda surprised those numbers are so few.

    Human nature.:)

    Duh! Ya think?:)
    Seventy two percent of Americans are opposed to the bill, did that stop those belligerent bastards?

    That's OK, November is just around the corner. We'll see what happens then.
    So much for a life-long career in politics for some of those guys. Polish up your resumes boys and girls, it's gonna be job hunting time pretty soon. I wonder......do ex-Senators qualify for unemployment compensation?:)
     
  7. Mar 26, 2010 #27

    travelover

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    I think that when the public realizes that all those scare stories about death panels and the government "taking over" are untrue and realizes how it benefits them, it will splash back on those spreading these stories.

    We went through this same cycle when we passed women's suffrage, civil rights legislation, Social Security, and Medicare. Change is always scary and those that stand to gain from blocking change are quick to take advantage of the public's skittishness by fanning these fears.
     
  8. Mar 26, 2010 #28

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    See what I mean? If it's good, or bad it doesn't matter we stand in contrast to it. It's our nature as Americans. Freedom of speech is really freedom of opposition. If we where saying things the higher ups liked they wouldn't attempt to silence us. America was founded and resides in opposition.
     
  9. Mar 26, 2010 #29

    Nestor_Kelebay

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    Tell me what's wrong with this argument for the "public option":

    All the other G8 countries in the world have some form of government run public health care, the people in those countries are happy with their health care system and it's not bankrupting their country. Why won't your government do the same in America?

    What you guys need first and foremost is clean up Washington so the lobbyists aren't running the country anymore, and the politicians actually represent the people again.

    And the baby squabbles between Republicans and Democrats on purely partisan grounds isn't helping either. Both should be working to do what's best for America, and not just doing whatever they can to annoy each other.
     
    Last edited: Mar 26, 2010
  10. Mar 26, 2010 #30

    oldognewtrick

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    Nestor, we don't want to be like the socialized European Nations. Some of us still believe that the American Spirit is risk and reward. Washington is trying to socialize our economy and set up entitlements. Its great if other nations want this type of system, but this nation was founded on freedom from what they are cramming down our throats right now. Its not about health care reform, cause this bill is not a reform bill, its an entitlement bill designed to maintain control.

    You are right about cleaning up the cesspool in Washington, Dem's and Repubs are both to blame. Special interest are not the best interests of our Nation.
     
  11. Mar 26, 2010 #31

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    If your so tired of politicians what do you do to rid yourselves of them? Elect more?
    Nestor the public option is unpopular because it leaves the middle class paying for everything. To broke to buy out. America ask to much of it's middle class, but as a Canadian I'm sure you know what that's like.
     
  12. Mar 26, 2010 #32

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    The public option cuts out the middle man - that is the insurance companies. They make a tremendous amount of money now and have an army of lobbyists in Washington and many, if not most, members of congress on their payroll. Who do you think pays for all the scare ads about killing grandma and creeping socialism? Another major foe is the hospital systems themselves, who negotiate rates with individual insurers. The government drives a hard bargain (reference Medicare reimbursement rates) and hospitals know that their profits will be nicked.

    Interestingly, when you add up Medicare, Medicaid, Veteran's Administration Hospitals and government employee's health care, most of the health care delivered in the US is already via a "public option".
     
  13. Mar 26, 2010 #33

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    Reread post #21 . Ironically, corporations have so much control now, they can send a lynch mob against anyone that opposes them by manipulating highly emotional topics like abortion, socialism, racism, social class competition, immigration, etc.
     
  14. Mar 26, 2010 #34

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    That's the problem with having that word "option" in there. The very wealthy opt out of the program because they can well afford the medical insurance.

    That's why all the other G8 countries have a public health care system, not a "public option".
     
  15. Mar 30, 2010 #35

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    I don't disagree with writing it out, the problem is though the rich run our nation. The politicians will inevitably opt out themselves after they live in their victory a bit longer. Same as it ever was.
     
  16. Apr 28, 2010 #36

    oldognewtrick

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    Well heres where we disagree, because what ever the govt is providing me they are taking the money out of YOUR pocket to fund it. How do you like paying for my free health care.

    I don't want the govt to provide me with anything but national security, they have shown that whatever they get their hands on they will mismanage.

    And where does it state in the constitution that the purpose of govt is to be the provider of all things....
     
  17. Apr 28, 2010 #37

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    My opinion, for what it's worth, is that the biggest reason insurance is so expensive is because of these wonderful government "regulations" that require you to have it. If you were not required to have it, and if you could purchase it from the insurance company of your choice anywhere, would the insurance companies not have to make themselves price competitive to attract business, in order to stay in business?

    As to the Constitution, if strictly read and interpreted the government should really just be there to guard our borders and fill potholes. In other words, stay the f*** out of my bank account!

    I think that if government would really lay off taxing the crap out of everyone, including the wealthy, a lot more people would have money to fix up or build homes. Therefore, we would have a lot more to do and a lot more money (to be taxed). I'll get off my soapbox now. :beer:
     
  18. Apr 28, 2010 #38

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    It doesn't and you're right on that. The issue though is it also used to not provide regulations about slavery. That being said, maybe the constitution is not an all inclusive doctrine of the regulations of government, but a guide to the times. I think the thing that I found most disheartening is that the main reason health care is so expensive has less to do with government intervention and more to do with people not paying their bills. How do you deny a life saving operation to some one who can't afford it? You don't. The unfortunate truth is that everyone is entitled to not die from preventable circumstance, but then that brings on debt. So what do you do? Allow the debt to remain unpaid and drive up the cost of current medicine to make it up, or do you ensure it gets paid in order to keep the cost from building up and bankrupting an industry that is indispensable? If current health cost continue to rise due to unpaid bills it's going to come out of the pocket of the middle class. In way of more expensive operations, higher prices for medication, and less coverage when you do have a claim. The solution is as difficult as the problem.The reality though is this affects us all and when it does it becomes the responsibility of the federal government to handle it. The middle class is going to pay for it any ways. Why not get everyone else involved?
     

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