I suppose here is the appropriate forum... Tool shed construction.

[Lancer525]

I'm planning for the build of a small tool shed, to store my lawnmower, rakes, gardening stuff, table saw, and a few other odds and ends, and have run into a bureaucratic nightmare.

I'm going to do one of those "precut" wooden shed kits, primarily because lumber prices are horrifying right now. I really don't want to put it on treated wood foundation, but would rather put a nice little 4" concrete slab down. Here's where the issues are starting. Since it is bigger than 120 square feet, I am required by local ordinance to have a building permit. That requires construction drawings, and the use of a licensed contractor. I have zero experience with concrete, and cannot do it myself. I called the local building inspection office, and explained I was wanting to build a small tool shed in my backyard. Since it was bigger than 120 square feet - And this is where the guy cut me off and started reciting "all residential construction of concrete foundations must have full 12" by 16" footings in a 6" thick slab, with #4 rebar and be inspected. Two sets of construction drawings signed by a certified engineer must be provided, and a full building permit including electrical and plumbing drawings must be submitted before construction begins." I tried to explain that I'm not building Windsor Castle, and that all three of the concrete contractors all told me that unless I was parking a semi on it, that a 4" slab with fencing mesh would do for a tool shed, but the building code guy just would not listen. He kept repeating himself, and finally, he told me to "Consult the building codes" and hung up on me.

So, can someone please point me to the exact place in the IBC that says that the concrete slabs for tool sheds must be built like Fort Knox? Or, in the more likely event, exactly where it is in the codes is the part about where tool sheds have to have reinforced concrete slabs? I can't find anything that specific, and I've been looking at them for a couple of weeks now. They're maddeningly imprecise.

Any help here? Please?

 

[Sparky617]

Wow, your building codes office is really helpful /sarc. Ours has been very good for me finishing my basement and when I built a screen porch for a friend. I can build up to 144 square feet (no larger than 12' in any direction). Do you have a similar size waiver for permits? Have you thought about one of the premade wooden sheds found for sale along many rural highways?

As to the "right" forum to post your question, for me at least I use the "what's new" feature to bring all the new posts on to a single page.

 

[bud16415]

My best advice is to play their game. You will never win when it comes to local zoning. If they allow a 10’x12’ shed then build one that’s free standing with no floor and two 4’ doors that swing out on the 10’ end. Once you get it built with a dirt floor go get the 2’x2’ concrete pavers that are 2” thick and set them inside for the floor. If that’s not enough storage then next year build another just like it. I would frame the whole thing with PT lumber as last year I compared prices and PT was almost the same as non PT.

 

[Snoonyb]

So, I've perused "some" of your regulations & requirements, & while buds may be a viable solution, there can also be lot coverage restrictions, as well as separations between structures.

What I found, is that you can self contract and you can have a state lic. consultant.

Member here can direct you on product and processes.

This would be my approach; I would compose a scaled drawing, on an 8" x 11" sheet of paper, of your lot, with all the structures present, with their distances, to scale, from the front, rear & side yards. Then add your proposed shed, with distances, to scale, from all structures, side and rear yard boundaries.

I would also compose a section drawing depicting the slab, wall material, roof, with lengths and heights.

For the slab, I would add a 4" depth, at the perimeters.For reinforcement, I would use 6-6-10-10WWM or #3 rebar @ 2' OC, tied.

Also find out the weight of the shed, and note it, or if the supplier has a cut sheet, bring it with you when you visit the planning & building dept., after you call and ask for an appoint to see a senior building official.

 

[Lancer525]

Okay, I think I wasn't all that clear when writing this in frustration mode.

I can build up to 119 square feet without a permit. I have to have one bigger than that for the things I have to store in it. All that stuff is spread around the house and I can't do anything to the inside of the house at all, until I can get it stored in the tool shed. One of the bedrooms has things like rakes, extension cords, shovels, every other garden tool I have, and things like painting stuff and sandpaper, and everything that should belong in a shed. The other spare bedroom has the lawn mower, chain saw, all my hand tools and boxes of nuts, bolts, screws, electrical connectors and all that type of stuff. Plus all the furniture and sheets and other "house stuff" that belongs in bedrooms. They're not usable as rooms because of all the shed stuff cluttering them up.

I'm not able to get one of those pre-made sheds put in the back, since I only have two feet between the side of the utlity room and the neighbor's fence on one side, and six feet between the edge of the concrete pad where the HVAC unit is sitting and the other neighbor's fence. There's no way to get it back behind the house in once piece, so I'll have to build something.

There isn't any "cut sheet" or anything like that. The shed comes as a bundle of pre-cut parts, wrapped up on two pallets. Everything except paint and roofing materials, but including hardware, nails, and screws. So there's no way to know what it weighs. This is the one I am going to get: Shed Kit not that it matters. It's a little bitty shed, not designed to do anything but be a shed and hold tools. It isn't Windsor Castle.

I'm not going to put any plumbing in it, but I may, a year from now or so, run an electrical wire out to it so I can have a plug-in for the lawn mower. It depends on what cutting the grass will be like this summer whether I want an outlet out there or not. There are none on the back of the house, so I have to run an extra cord from the little utility room in the carport to cut the grass and use the weed eater.

I don't know what 6-6-10WWM is. What I had planned to use is something like this: Mesh Mat.

I talked to the father of a classmate from grad school, as he owns a rather large concrete company in Phoenix, and he tells me that a 4" reinforced slab will handle a standard compact car. What my city is asking for could handle a tank. I think that's a bit of exaggeration on his part, but not by much.

What I asked for originally, was the exact code regulation that specifies what size and dimensions and measurements that a slab for a tool shed is required to be. There is nothing in the codes that I could find that specifies anything for a tool shed. I can't even find what the setbacks from property lines are, and no one at the building code office would tell me. Even when I directly asked.

I was hoping someone would tell me that, or at least tell me the exact regulation number so that I know where to go to look it up myself, so that when I go to the code and permit office, I can tell them that I'm not building Buckingham Palace, and show them that this is what the code says. They're going to try to make me put in a slab that you can park a tank on, because they are neither listening to me, nor hearing what I am saying.

 

[Snoonyb]

Here is their contact info; Shed Kit Help | Contact Shed Kit Store for Support

Ask.

The "mesh-mat" is 6-6-10-10 Welded Wire Mesh, and a search at virtually any building hdwr. outlet, would have told you that.

Asking someone in AZ about GA codes, is...........................

REPEAT;"Also find out the weight of the shed, and note it, or if the supplier has a cut sheet, bring it with you when you visit the planning & building dept., after you call and ask for an appoint. to see a senior building official."

Also, you can search the zoning ordinances for your property, but you'll need to know what your lot is zoned for.

 

[BvilleBound]

Dear Lancer: We ran into a similar problem with a tool shed at our home along the shore in Massachusetts. In addition to the building code requirements, exceeding the limit would have tripped an Environmental Review - which is much more time consuming. A few suggestions:

1. Build it so that the foundation footprint is slightly less than the limit that requires a building permit -- typically 100 SF in most towns / cities.
   
   
2. Use concrete block footings, rather than a poured slab. This makes it easier to build a 'foundation' with PT lumber, which will be elevated above grade with an air gap to avoid rot. Install PVC lattice around the edge to keep critters from nesting under the shed. See the photo below.
   
   
3. Then you can then add 'bump outs' that increase the useable space, similar to window boxes - without exceeding the 100 SF limit. These bump outs can have shelves and doors like closets on the interior, or doors on the exterior for quick access to garden tools, etc.
   
   
4. Line the interior with 3/4" plywood -- a solid surface that you can mount shelves, tool holders etc on.
   
   
5. I finished the exterior of the shed at our previous home and our new home along the shore with PVC composite siding and cellular PVC trim - to match the house and avoid rot. Cellular PVC is excellent for trim; it never rots or cracks and never needs to be painted. See the photos below.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[bud16415]

I think you would be surprised at how much stuff you can keep in a 10’x12’ shed if you plan the internal storage around what you need to store and in some cases even use more than one outside doors to access the inside area.



The bottom line is that’s what the powers to be are going to let you do on your own without a permit and if you go larger then you will be bound by their rules or risk building a non permitted structure and at some point be told to take it down. Or at least when it comes time to sell it would have to be taken down.



Where we live the rule is 100 sq ft and my brother in law needed storage and wanted to build two 10x10 sheds and I suggested he go 8x12 as they would look better and materials come 4x8 and it would mean less cutting. He went with 10x10 not wanting to give up 2 sq ft of floor space, but took my not cutting idea and made them 8’ tall walls. He left 3’ between the two tower sheds and code enforcement were fine with it all. He built them with gravel floors and then the next year mixed and poured floors from bag mix.

I don’t know what code here would say about the bump outs mentioned above I would check with code enforcement before doing that. If they say ok then that’s a great way to gain more area. I’m pretty sure here they would run their tape measure down the largest point. I would even ask about overhangs and any outcroppings.

 

[Sparky617]

Going higher might solve some of your storage problem while keeping the foot print within the town's limitations. Organization of your storage space is key to optimizing it. Getting stuff on the walls and overhead will dramatically expand the usable floor space.

 

[Snoonyb]

Lancer needs to do a lot more homework, as in what constitutes a "permanent structure", and would a slab, be that determining item. If so, building a PT platform supported on CMU blocks, and accessed via a lamp, may overcome that.

From the zoning ordinances, there are max. lot coverage restrictions, IE. 45%, in some cases, or, his dwelling may, by age, be classed as existing non-conforming, in that it was built under prior zoning ordinances, not as restrictive as the current.

 

[Sparky617]

Lancer needs to do a lot more homework, as in what constitutes a "permanent structure", and would a slab, be that determining item. If so, building a PT platform supported on CMU blocks, and accessed via a lamp, may overcome that.

From the zoning ordinances, there are max. lot coverage restrictions, IE. 45%, in some cases, or, his dwelling may, by age, be classed as existing non-conforming, in that it was built under prior zoning ordinances, not as restrictive as the current.

It really sounds like he's got a great public servant in the codes office. That's sarcasm BTW.

 

[Snoonyb]

I've found, having worked in cities, both private and participant, for 45yrs. there are those who are advocates and those that are dictatorial, and that's why I prefer to face them across a counter, as opposed to some remote information purveyor.

"I want to see their face, when they're feeding me the sausage".

 

[Lancer525]

Here is their contact info; Shed Kit Help | Contact Shed Kit Store for Support

Ask.

The "mesh-mat" is 6-6-10-10 Welded Wire Mesh, and a search at virtually any building hdwr. outlet, would have told you that.

Asking someone in AZ about GA codes, is...........................

REPEAT;"Also find out the weight of the shed, and note it, or if the supplier has a cut sheet, bring it with you when you visit the planning & building dept., after you call and ask for an appoint. to see a senior building official."

Also, you can search the zoning ordinances for your property, but you'll need to know what your lot is zoned for.

I wasn't asking anyone in Arizona about Georgia Codes, because there are no "Georgia Codes". They're referring to the International Building Codes, which are the same everywhere. I've looked through them, and I cannot find any reference to any slab details for any tool sheds. I'm hoping that someone else, anywhere else in the world knows what these details are, and can point me to the exact place in the IBC that defines them, so I have something to show the local building code people.

 

[Snoonyb]

There are numerous codes adopted for GA, and I've quoted from a few.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

You will not find a specific code notification that you can reference without going to the planning and building office, AND ASKING!

REPEAT;"Also find out the weight of the shed, and note it, or if the supplier has a cut sheet, bring it with you when you visit the planning & building dept., after you call and ask for an appoint. to see a senior building official."

 

[Lancer525]

There are numerous codes adopted for GA, and I've quoted from a few.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink.

You will not find a specific code notification that you can reference without going to the planning and building office, AND ASKING!

REPEAT;"Also find out the weight of the shed, and note it, or if the supplier has a cut sheet, bring it with you when you visit the planning & building dept., after you call and ask for an appoint. to see a senior building official."

I'm not entirely sure how many more times you're going to have to read this to grasp the fact that NO ONE AT THE BUILDING CODE OFFICE WILL TALK TO ME BECAUSE I AM NOT A BUILDER OR CONTRACTOR. They told me that to my face. So, no, I cannot "go to the office and ask." No matter how many times you write it, it isn't going to happen. Period.

If the code exists, I don't need the local office to tell me what it is. It should be able to be located without them. They don't write the thing.

Again, The MANUFACTURER cannot tell me the weight of the package, because they don't know what it is to tell me. I already asked them. The two different people I talked to could not tell me. You repeating yourself isn't going to change that. And I'm not going to be bullied over it either. I find your comment about the horse and water seriously offensive. Childish, and petulant as well.

You can keep posting the same thing, the same way each time, and expect a different result all you like, but that does not change the reality of the situation I am facing here. It might look pretty easy to you in whatever chair in which you're sitting, in whatever locale you happen to be, but it isn't that way here in the real world for me. Maybe I'm just some dumb hick college professor who doesn't know a thing about the construction world, and you're the expert at everything, but that isn't getting it done. I've been straightforward, I've been polite, I've been open, and fair in attempting to get a straight answer. And haven't gotten one yet.

 

[Lancer525]

Dear Lancer: We ran into a similar problem with a tool shed at our home along the shore in Massachusetts. In addition to the building code requirements, exceeding the limit would have tripped an Environmental Review - which is much more time consuming. A few suggestions:

1. Build it so that the foundation footprint is slightly less than the limit that requires a building permit -- typically 100 SF in most towns / cities.
   
   
2. Use concrete block footings, rather than a poured slab. This makes it easier to build a 'foundation' with PT lumber, which will be elevated above grade with an air gap to avoid rot. Install PVC lattice around the edge to keep critters from nesting under the shed. See the photo below.
   
   
3. Then you can then add 'bump outs' that increase the useable space, similar to window boxes - without exceeding the 100 SF limit. These bump outs can have shelves and doors like closets on the interior, or doors on the exterior for quick access to garden tools, etc.
   
   
4. Line the interior with 3/4" plywood -- a solid surface that you can mount shelves, tool holders etc on.
   
   
5. I finished the exterior of the shed at our previous home and our new home along the shore with PVC composite siding and cellular PVC trim - to match the house and avoid rot. Cellular PVC is excellent for trim; it never rots or cracks and never needs to be painted. See the photos below.

I hope this is helpful.

View attachment 27798View attachment 27799View attachment 27800

Thanks for all that, and it looks great, but it is not applicable to my situation at all. I am only trying to find out what the International Building Code actually says, so that when I go in, and stand there until someone talks to me, builder, contractor or not, I can physically show them that the code says I do not have to build the foundation for Fort Knox for a little bitty tool shed. That's all I'm asking for.

I'm not trying to get nuclear launch codes, I'm not trying to get the password to the lock on the Batcave. I would just like the exact code that specifically says what utility shed foundations have to look like. Because there is nothing in what I've seen online.

 

[bud16415]

I think the information you need can be found in the IBC2018 under chapter 18 soils and foundations. Go thru chapter 18 in detail and prepare your report to counter any determination your local code enforcement may cast down on your plans and ask to be put on the calendar for an appeal.



It shouldn’t be a problem putting a case together for appeal of the 6” slab or whatever nonsense they are telling you. With any luck you should have a clear path to building your shed just the way you want it in 3-4 years.



Good luck and here is a link to chapter 18 although there are likely elements of the rest of the IBC that will come into question as they go thru the process of reviewing your info.



2018 INTERNATIONAL BUILDING CODE (IBC) | ICC DIGITAL CODES

Keep in mind the information you are given here is given freely by those trying to help you and they are not doing it for pay and you are not being asked to cover their time. The old adage of you get what you pay for is often true.

 

[Snoonyb]

So, I'm to give some "general" information on the process, states, use when adopting municipal codes.

GA decides to adopt the IBC, state wide, and in that process, notifies all the communities of that intent.
After the states adoption, each fiefdom/community then can also adopt the code, as written, OR, they can add amendments, WHICH DONOT LESSEN any applicable chapter of the code, but do address a particular condition, that exists within that communities jurisdiction. They can. also make particular sections of the code more stringent.

The amendments can then be adopted, as part of that applicable code.

There may be a specific notation somewhere addressing accessory buildings, listed.

I've been successful in visiting building debts. for 45yrs.

I frankly do not have the time or interest in solving your problem, for you.

It's up to you.

In my review of the GA building permit application, I found that, "you can self contract and you can have a state lic. consultant.", In writing, on line, from GA site.\

The vendor ships by weight and they know and have records of their past bill of ladeling.

 

[bud16415]

Lancer your forum info has you located in GA but you are talking about AZ ??

Is this some of the confusion?

 

[ekrig]

You say that a 10x12 shed is not enough but it gets really complicated above that. Is there an height limit? Depending on what you want to store in the shed, if you build it a couple of feet higher, you could have a second level, or at least high shelves on which you could store quite a lot.
Just a thought...