Removing load bearing wall?

[Encalado83]

Hi i am removing a wall that i think is a load bearing wall. I dont plan on having a big opening. There will be 2 end posts a 2 posts in middle. All post close to 5 feet apart, total span close to 16 feet. Will i need a load beam installed in above another beam i am putting in? The post are cedar 6x6 and the beam will be same. Debating to cut cieling joists and attach to a lvl that sits above the 6x6 beam. It is a hip roof construction that is a one story. I attached a photo of thw wall and above the wall where the ceiling joists meet.

 

[nealtw]

Welcome to the site.
Can you confirm that the roof structure is hand framed and not engineered trusses, or just a better picture of the structure.
The posts you put in will be point loads so they need support all the way to the foundation. So if you have a crawlspace, there will be some work to do down there. Not much.

If you are just the supporting the weight of the ceiling the extra weight on the section of foundation should not be a major concern.

If I was doing this much work I would go the extra and put the full length LVLs flush so I had a clean open ceiling.

I would not use ceder for the beams even for the short ones, 2 2xx10s would be better.

 

[Encalado83]

Thank you. It is not a a truss system. It is hand built. Itis a crawl space and right under the wall is the supporting floor joists. The is nothing above the wall except a small attic about 4 feet tall.

 

[nealtw]

Thank you. It is not a a truss system. It is hand built. Itis a crawl space and right under the wall is the supporting floor joists. The is nothing above the wall except a small attic about 4 feet tall.

Ooo, nothing but floor joists?
How long are they and is this wall in the center or closer to one end?

We are getting close to where you might need an engineers advice.

 

[Encalado83]

I am sorry not floor joists i meant floor girder that runs right under the wall the whole length of wall with cinder block supports and proper footings.

 

[nealtw]

I am sorry not floor joists i meant floor girder that runs right under the wall the whole length of wall with cinder block supports and proper footings.

So is the girder the same 16 ft as the wall above?

 

[Encalado83]

The girder is the length of the house so it also runs under another wall that seperates bedrooms. Total length of this girder is about 32 feet long.

 

[nealtw]

The girder is the length of the house so it also runs under another wall that seperates bedrooms. Total length of this girder is about 32 feet long.

Depending on the style of girder, I doubt it was designed to take a point load in the center.

You can see with the one here the top 2x4 on flat would not do the job.

Google floor girder and find one that looks like yours and post the picture.

 

[Encalado83]

I took a pic. And its 3 boards wide.

 

[nealtw]

I took a pic. And its 3 boards wide.

Starting over, you have a 3 ply beam 2x8s or 2x10s with piers every X feet.

And the new posts will land at X inches from one pier and X inches from another pier and so on.

 

[Encalado83]

It is 3ply 2x10. 6x6 posts will be about 6 feet apart. The cinder block piers are about 9 feet apart.

 

[nealtw]

The simple explanation of the worry about point loads is

If you want to break a stick you might put you foot in the middle and pull up one end and if it doesn't break it will bend at the point where you have your foot.
You are not talking about a lot of weight as each sheet of drywall is either 50 or 70 pounds and you can figure what that might total for the ceiling and you will be holding half of the total.

Just cut some blocks to match the height of the floor joists and put them between the beam and the sub floor plywood so the weight is transferred directly to the beam.
While you are there check the nailing on the beam, there should be 3 nails every 16 inches on both sides.
The over kill would be to add another 2x10 to one side of the beam in the sections in question..

That said back upstairs, I understand you want three posts, for the same money I would do the structure for two even if you add the third.
Set 2 2x12s near the wall, build the two temp walls to hold the ceiling up remove the wall.
Use a chalk line and place to lines on the ceiling joists 3 1/4 inches apart and cut the that out .
Slide hangers onto the ends of every ceiling joist then nail the 2x12s together with 4 nails every 16" and slide that up into place, set your end posts and go upstairs and nail the hangers then remove the temp walls.

It's all easy from where I am sitting

Keep in mind that the ceiling joist also hold the outside walls from spreading, so if your 3 1/4" grows a little we would get a little excited about that.

 

[Encalado83]

Thank you very much for all your help

 

[bud16415]

It would be ideal if your design just had 3 posts instead of 4, but understand you need it done that way. What you are getting into is point loading the beam below rather than uniform loading with one stud for each joist above.

The answer you will get is most likely will be you need a professional eng to run the numbers and give you a recommendation. The joists come together in the attic and have a plate nailed to them. The weight of the roof is pushing out on the walls and the ceiling joists are being pulled in tension as there is no king post taking half the weight down thru the building. So the weight the center wall is really supporting is the weight of the ceiling and joists. Actually half that weight as the outside walls are taking the other half. I personally feel the triple 10’s spanned at 9’ will do the job with a point load 1/3 of the span over.

You could calculate it yourself or find a pro to do it and write a report or go with your gut feel. You could also sister more 10”s over the center pier out to where the post is if you feel the need.

 

[Encalado83]

Will i really have to worry about point loads for the two center posts if i have a lvl load beam put in with king studs on the outside to support the lvl beam. The lvl beam should take weight off the two center posts correct? The outside king studs should fall right over the cinder block piers.

 

[nealtw]

How many square feet of both rooms, ceiling drywall, 1/2" or 5/8"?
As the piers are 16 x 16 the king and jack studs should be landing above the pier?
full length beam moves the weight from the center pier to the out side piers.

Let's figure the weight you are moving.

 

[bud16415]

Yes if you make the whole thing a free span then your two center posts will just be decorations. That is the harder way to go and will cost the most though, I think.

 

[Encalado83]

How many square feet of both rooms, ceiling drywall, 1/2" or 5/8"?
As the piers are 16 x 16 the king and jack studs should be landing above the pier?
full length beam moves the weight from the center pier to the out side piers.

Let's figure the weight you are moving.

Kitchen is 13x12
Living room 16.5x12
Drywall 1/2 thick
King studs will land on top of piers

 

[nealtw]

Yes if you make the whole thing a free span then your two center posts will just be decorations. That is the harder way to go and will cost the most though, I think.

Lumber is sold by the foot, 2 8s = 1 16

Then the question is the footing under the two piers taking the load. buty I think it is minimal.

And you know how often I suggest an engineer. We are just talking about 1/4 of the weight of the whole ceiling, which would be around 55 lbs for ever 32 sf.

2x12s would be over kill, LVLs would be a waist of money.

 

[nealtw]

OK math from the head, some one can check it.

SQ feet 12 x 30 =550 / 32 = 17 4x8 sheets drywall @ 55 lbs= 940 plus the 2x4 joists. let's say the ceilings weighs 1000 lbs.

So the new full length beam would carry 1000/2 = 500 as half is sitting on outside walls. So now you have 250 lbs on each post.

each of the posts down stairs is carrying 250 lbs.

So you are asking the two piers to carry 500 lbs

I think that would fall well inside the safety over build or the piers.

I have been wrong before..:thbup: