Trump's Contract with America

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Chris said:
So Neal, what do you think we should do this election time? Should we vote? should we not? Who do you think has the right idea for our country?
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What I would suggest is burn your party membership and be a qualified decision maker. I have only stated thing for you to think about. it is up to you to figure out weather I am blowing wind or there is a real danger.

Some one earlier asked what people in other countries think. It would be silly for me to attempt to answer that.

I can look at the worst case scenario
Climate change, the whole world is looking at it, it sure sounds important to me.
There should be a lot of money to be made there even if you don't believe.

If you jump off the world trade market, news flash the world doesn't stop.

Remove forces from the east China has a free hand, to deal with all those ex allies.
Let Russia rebuild the Soviet Union.

Let Europe fall completely apart under the stress of more and more refugees.

Your country has done good punishing other country's for not playing the game politely, soon you will find out what that looks like from the other side.

How long will US money be King as the monetary system falls apart.

Do your home work make a decision, it's all on you.
 
nealtw said:
What I would suggest is burn your party membership and be a qualified decision maker. I have only stated thing for you to think about. it is up to you to figure out weather I am blowing wind or there is a real danger.

Some one earlier asked what people in other countries think. It would be silly for me to attempt to answer that.

I can look at the worst case scenario
Climate change, the whole world is looking at it, it sure sounds important to me.
There should be a lot of money to be made there even if you don't believe.

If you jump off the world trade market, news flash the world doesn't stop.

Remove forces from the east China has a free hand, to deal with all those ex allies.
Let Russia rebuild the Soviet Union.

Let Europe fall completely apart under the stress of more and more refugees.

Your country has done good punishing other country's for not playing the game politely, soon you will find out what that looks like from the other side.

How long will US money be King as the monetary system falls apart.

Do your home work make a decision, it's all on you.
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You didn't offer any real substance on what one should do?

I started my whole process with no party affiliation and ended up on the conservative side for the most part.

There are good point from both sides. I am always open to hearing about the other side yet when I bring up facts that I have researched you tell me I am just repeating talking points and I hate to say it but you are doing the exact same thing but only from the opposite sides point of view.

I agree Climate change or global warming or whatever it is called this year is a great place to get rich. The dinosaurs should have thought about that millions of years ago in the ice age or when this place was hot because the climate just keeps on changing. I wish I could figure out a way to capitalize on it.

World trade will always be here but it would be nice to have more stuff made in America and we could sustain ourselves a little better. The unions and taxes did a good job of pushing all that away.

I can't comment on Europe and the fighting because I don't know enough about it, I do know war is money and it is how things have been done for a very very long time whether right or wrong.

I assume US money will stay being King for some time yet I really don't know. We seem to be a pretty strong country no matter how you look at it. We just are not as tough as we used to be.


When you really think about it we have two choices for our next leader, Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. We don't know what either one of them will do for us and we won't know until they are in office. None of what they said they will do because they still have a government full of people to work with, they can't just march in and start barking orders, it doesn't work that way. We can base our choice off what we think they will do or off of what they have done for us but we still don't know what will happen. I will vote against Hillary for just one reason and one reason alone that personally affects me, I am an avid gun collector and gun owner. If she gets elected there is a strong chance many of my guns will become scary and illegal to own. That one reason is enough for me to vote against her. As I see it I may not be voting for Trump but I am voting against Hillary. Like I have always said I vote for what will affect me and my family personally first, I will care about global warming and all the other crap second.

I will also always vote to not raise taxes no matter what they are for. We all pay enough for our government to run smoothly if they knew how to run it, It sure would be nice if an actual businessman ran for president, someone that knows how to not overspend.

There is another reason I will vote against Hillary, she has a proven record of getting paid for favors, she has scandal after scandal, so many that nobody cares anymore. She has proven she is not trustworthy. Would you want a known criminal to run your country? Now I know she is not a criminal by definition but there are people in prison for doing the same exact things she has done, just because she got off doesn't mean her hands are clean.
 
I have become more skeptical of the two-party system as i have aged. It should more accurately be called the Two-Club system.
We pick sides in this country like it is a football game and not like it is our government; we root for people by label and not by idea. And we use the parties as a substitute for studying the issues.

Voting for a third party is tempting, but I know and can find out very little about anyone below the first two; the Greens and the Libertarians. (and if I took the time to study those guys out now, i would be missing all this fun ).

Donald is a bad idea any way I look at it. He's a closed book with no true arrow north. Words mean nothing to him, and his actions are unpredictable, beyond his greed and narcissism.
Hillary is not much better as a candidate, except her track record is public.

Given a choice between the two; I would say punt (notice the football reference?:rolleyes: ) and not take a chance on Donald. At least Hillary is the status quo until someone better comes along.
 
nealtw said:
At a quick glance it looks a lot better than 2008, you should study that.
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Some have come down some have gone up. By 2012 the economy was in much better shape than 08. Don't worry we will fall again in another few years. Maybe one day people will learn how much they can afford to spend. I remember back in 06 I was looking at buying a home and I only wanted a 30 year fixed rate loan and I could not get one. They only had those stupid loans that got people in trouble with. Interest only or 0% for five years and the scheme was "You will have a better job in five years and you can just refi". And of course they don't teach people how to be money smart in school so all the lemmings went out and bought 500,000 dollar homes while making 12 bucks an hour without even doing any sort of simple math to see if they could ever afford it first. The banks told them they could and they believed it. I backed out of buying a house at that point because I spent 30 seconds with a calculator to see if I could afford it after that five year interest only payment. If other did the same we would not have been in the perdicament we were in at least not to the scale it was.

It's a pretty simple thing to do, live within your means and buy a damn calculator.
 
slownsteady said:
I have become more skeptical of the two-party system as i have aged. It should more accurately be called the Two-Club system.
We pick sides in this country like it is a football game and not like it is our government; we root for people by label and not by idea. And we use the parties as a substitute for studying the issues.

Voting for a third party is tempting, but I know and can find out very little about anyone below the first two; the Greens and the Libertarians. (and if I took the time to study those guys out now, i would be missing all this fun ).

Donald is a bad idea any way I look at it. He's a closed book with no true arrow north. Words mean nothing to him, and his actions are unpredictable, beyond his greed and narcissism.
Hillary is not much better as a candidate, except her track record is public.

Given a choice between the two; I would say punt (notice the football reference?:rolleyes: ) and not take a chance on Donald. At least Hillary is the status quo until someone better comes along.
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I agree with a lot you have said, Hillary will just be another 4 or 8 years of where we are currently and Donald is a gamble. If the two parties could forget the small stuff like guns and abortion and focus on the larger things they could probably get a lot more votes. I would be ok with another Liberal president if not for the things I stated in my last post.
 
Chris said:
Some have come down some have gone up. By 2012 the economy was in much better shape than 08. Don't worry we will fall again in another few years. Maybe one day people will learn how much they can afford to spend. I remember back in 06 I was looking at buying a home and I only wanted a 30 year fixed rate loan and I could not get one. They only had those stupid loans that got people in trouble with. Interest only or 0% for five years and the scheme was "You will have a better job in five years and you can just refi". And of course they don't teach people how to be money smart in school so all the lemmings went out and bought 500,000 dollar homes while making 12 bucks an hour without even doing any sort of simple math to see if they could ever afford it first. The banks told them they could and they believed it. I backed out of buying a house at that point because I spent 30 seconds with a calculator to see if I could afford it after that five year interest only payment. If other did the same we would not have been in the perdicament we were in at least not to the scale it was.


It's a pretty simple thing to do, live within your means and buy a damn calculator.
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That is what caused the depression and the recession, there are laws back in place so it can't happen but some one wants to repeal that. So hold on.

You have a funny set of rules,

Absolutely trust the party but it's the peoples fault because they trusted the bank
 
if you are thinking about voting for Hillary, think about this.

What the AFL-CIO says about NAFTA and Trump

From the AFL-CIO website in 2013 concerning NAFTA.

As the NAFTA experience demonstrates, the theory that “free trade agreements” (FTAs) result in U.S. export growth is demonstrably false. In fact, as Public Citizen recently pointed out, U.S. export growth to FTA partners was actually slower than to non-FTA partners over the past decade. In 1993, adjusting for inflation, the United States had a $2.5 billion trade surplus with Mexico and a $29.1 billion trade deficit with Canada. By 2012, the combined NAFTA trade deficit was $181 billion. Manufacturing and service exports to Mexico and Canada in the years since NAFTA was enacted have both grown at below half the rate prior to the agreement.

The Economic Policy Institute estimates that, as of 2010, the trade deficit with Mexico alone displaced 682,900 U.S. jobs. Companies that publicly committed to hire more workers and increase exports during NAFTA negotiations broke their promises, outsourced labor and shuttered worksites. Many of the jobs lost were in industries like manufacturing that, on average, pay higher wages and have more comprehensive benefits than the average job.

And it goes on and on about how bad NAFTA is, and destroying jobs, and lowering wages etc etc.

AFL-CIO on Trump and NAFTA renegotiation in 2016.

"This year, America’s labor movement has unleashed the most comprehensive and sophisticated electoral program in our history. It’s working. We are cutting through Trump’s bluster and getting to the heart of his record. Trump may be loud, but we are clear. Since June, Trump’s support among union members in Ohio has dropped 12 points. Let me repeat that. Trump’s support among union members in Ohio has dropped 12 points in the last three months. You did that! Donald Trump is in a nosedive because of the conversations each of you are having."

The leader of the nation’s largest labor union thinks Republican presidential candidate Donald Trump’s position on trade is a positive, but said the candidate is a “fraud” and “unfit to be president.”

AFL-CIO President Richard Trumka said he’s happy that both major party presidential candidates reject the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal, but he doesn’t trust Mr. Trump to stick to that position.

“Anytime a politician is on the same side of an issue as us, we think it’s a positive,” Mr. Trumka said Thursday at an event hosted by the Christian Science Monitor in Washington, D.C. But “Donald Trump talking about being against trade deals is sort of laughable.”

The AFL-CIO helped to create those trade deals by backing the Democrats in 1994.

From 1993.

After 12 years of insult from Republican Administrations, the last thing unions needed was a political defeat inflicted by a Democratic President they helped elect. But that's what labor got with the passage of the North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA). Now, union leaders and the Democratic Party find themselves wondering how to bridge the rift between them.
In truth, the two sides have been drifting apart for years. A growing number of Democrats, led by President Clinton, have focused on the competitive demands of a global economy. Organized labor, meanwhile, has tried to hold back the tide. The NAFTA fight only highlighted the schism. "It's clear that the union movement does have to go through dramatic change," says Richard W. Hurd, professor at Cornell University's School of Industrial & Labor Relations. "Rather than protecting the current system, they need to respond to the changing economy."

So in 1994 to respond to the changing economy, the AFL-CIO backed the Democrats. A million jobs gone since, they are backing Clinton 6-4 over Trump knowing full well TPP is going to be fully enacted without revision.

When the TPP was first released, it was 12 pages long, I read every bit of it and posted highlights here. Everyone here...was right. The original proposal had nothing in it but positive for the American worker. When the final revision was released last November, I just searched through, nothing that was in the original proposal was in the 2000 pages, if it was I couldn't find it.

In 1993 the AFL-CIO leadership was told they did not want to make an enemy like Clinton, so they went from fighting against NAFTA to supporting the Democrats. Now, they will get a renewed NAFTA, and they will get the TPP.

Oh well, that is their jobs they are voting to send overseas.
 
nealtw said:
Lincoln was not trying to stop slavery in the south he blocked slaves from being sold into the territories. It was all about the rich white guys.
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!!! BINGO !!!

And the War Between The States was not over slavery but state rights. Slavery was instilled by big business of the day.

More need to pick up a non-corrected history text and read about Lincoln.

Now the Brits intercepting slave ships at sea. That was piracy. They had no just cause. They got their t!ts in a wringer doing similar things to American shipping earlier and the result was the War of 1812.

But they surely enjoyed that Southern cotton over there now didn't they?
 
KULTULZ said:
!!! BINGO !!!

And the War Between The States was not over slavery but state rights. Slavery was instilled by big business of the day.

More need to pick up a non-corrected history text and read about Lincoln.

Now the Brits intercepting slave ships at sea. That was piracy. They had no just cause. They got their t!ts in a wringer doing similar things to American shipping earlier and the result was the War of 1812.

But they surely enjoyed that Southern cotton over there now didn't they?
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No different than us buying stuff made in slave like factories today.
 
Well boys this has been more than fun but I am going to take my ball and go home now.

PS I would like to see Trump take on five dems at the same time for two days and stay polite for the most part and make a real attempt to stay away from one liners even has the other side is all over the place with them.
 
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The United States is in an unique situation as it is presently the only power that can project control over the rest of the world, either militarily or financially.

This is because WWII destroyed the rest of the world. It is too costly to project military force around the world as once done.

If there was another world power that could project the same influences, this country would be in real trouble. It hasn't the manufacturing base to support a major war where sea lanes could be cut. That is why we have foreign aid, to buy support.
 
nealtw said:
That is what caused the depression and the recession, there are laws back in place so it can't happen but some one wants to repeal that. So hold on.

You have a funny set of rules,

Absolutely trust the party but it's the peoples fault because they trusted the bank
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Who ever said I absolutely trust any party? Just because I am voting for them doesn't mean I am putting full trust in them.

I trust the banks about as much. I was more getting at if people were a little more involved and not believing everything they hear things would be very different. Remember banks are a business.
 
havasu said:
He's got my vote but unfortunately he kissed a girl 10 years ago...
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Apparently he did a lot more than that. And dang, if it weren't for those recordings of him actually describing what he thought of women and how they should be treated, we could probably have found a way to discredit all these babes coming forward to tell their so-called "stories".

You can bet the Democrats are behind most of this. They probably tracked down all these victims and convinced them to wait till the election was closer before going public... Talk about sneaky!!

Personally, it doesn't bother me that Donald has no respect for women or their personal boundaries. Heck, for all we know, Hillary's been going around groping guys, and they've just been too embarrassed to step forward. Of course, some of them may have enjoyed it, and were even disappointed she didn't do it again.

If that's true, it needs to be revealed. Think of what a boost it'd give Donald's faltering campaign if some of these guys appeared in the media and told Donald's victims not to be such whiners!

It would also remind everybody what a "guy" thing the presidency is. I mean, if women like these can't shrug off a little personal violation, what would they do when something really serious happened, like a nuclear showdown? I'm telling you, the whole thing could be turned around to our advantage. It could be like the '50s again, when women knew their places and just took what was given to them... Remember how fun that was? Man, what happened, anyway?

havasu said:
...so he is not qualified to be our president according to the millions of lemmings who think it is ok that Killary's hubby shoved cigars up women...
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I'm not sure, but I don't think Hillary was actually involved in that. But I'm with you—there are a lot more possibilities if, rather than focusing on the candidates themselves, we can dig up some tabloid-style gossip about candidates' friends and relatives.

For example, I've heard that one of Hillary's former hairdressers, a guy named Pierre, secretly dresses up like Sesame Street characters—of both genders!! Someone just needs to sneak into his house and get some pictures of him doing this. Imagine the devastating effect something like that could have on Hillary's reputation!

Unfortunately, the things Donald did to those women were, technically, crimes, which probably made them more smug about speaking up. But there must be lots of people Hillary has wronged in other ways, for example:

• People whom she's left inadequate tips
• People her drivers have cut off in traffic
• People she's bumped into without saying "excuse me"
• People who've invited her over for dinner and been told she was too busy

It'll just take some extra effort finding people like that and convincing them to hold press conferences. Let's get busy, before it's too late!!
 
A couple of spare thoughts:
the banks are a great example of unregulated business and how that can upset an entire country (world!!)
In this global economy, we will all have to arrive at the same level before things can improve. Unfortunately for us, we have the most to lose.
There has never been a way to control the growth or movement of big business since we have learned to cross oceans. The only entity with enough power to do that is a huge and powerful government. If the gov't (gubmint, as frodo would say) steps out of the way, be prepared for the return of "corporate kingdoms". Ask Eastern Indians and Africans about that one.
I'm sure no one likes to see a free ride by some people at your expense, but think about life in a country without a safety net. Not everyone in poverty deserves to be there. Health, lack of opportunity, unfortunate circumstances may be the reasons why they are there.
 
nealtw said:
Well boys this has been more than fun but I am going to take my ball and go home... PS I would like to see Trump take on five dems at the same time for two days and stay polite for the most part...
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Yeah, it's really too bad he's such a jerk. If he could just keep that under control till he was elected, then he could act however he wanted to. Someone needed to tell him how important it was to at least act like a decent, intelligent, moral person when you're running for office. But no.
 
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