What did you do today?

[Flyover]

"Oh, so I should instead hallucinate that the school is teaching my kids stuff I don't approve of behind my back, and waste my life worrying about that, so at least I can not be "probably wrong". Got it."

However, you haven't asked, if.

Each week I get an email from the teachers: "Here's what we'll be covering in class next week".

I suppose I could imagine that the teachers are lying, and surreptitiously sneaking lessons of a vile nature. (I can imagine a lot worse than their being taught "Some men like to dress up as women and that's okay" but let's stick with that.) But without some basis for my suspicions, why would I have them?

promoted questionable materials

The head of a union promoting questionable materials is a far cry from drag queens being brought in to celebrate where they get licked before a captive audience of children.

schools teaching gay behind parents backs at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

I see a lot of search results from alarmist news sources, which doesn't really tell me anything new. Do you have a reliable source showing this is happening on a wide scale and not just an isolated incident on the other side of the country?

Why are some people so eager to be alarmed and outraged about things? Makes you an easy mark for hucksters.

 

[Spicoli43]

Okay, you have no problem with your kids being taught about gay anal sex and "switching" their gender by Demonic Satan worshipping drag queens, the school board, teachers and authors of books.

I'll leave you alone.

 

[Snoonyb]

Each week I get an email from the teachers: "Here's what we'll be covering in class next week".

I suppose I could imagine that the teachers are lying, and surreptitiously sneaking lessons of a vile nature. (I can imagine a lot worse than their being taught "Some men like to dress up as women and that's okay" but let's stick with that.) But without some basis for my suspicions, why would I have them?


The head of a union promoting questionable materials is a far cry from drag queens being brought in to celebrate where they get licked before a captive audience of children.


I see a lot of search results from alarmist news sources, which doesn't really tell me anything new. Do you have a reliable source showing this is happening on a wide scale and not just an isolated incident on the other side of the country?

Why are some people so eager to be alarmed and outraged about things? Makes you an easy mark for hucksters.

How about sticking to the 3 R's?

What a novel approach.

 

[Flyover]

How about sticking to the 3 R's?

What a novel approach.

I'd have no problem with that.

 

[Eddie_T]

To me childhood should be a time of innocence. There is no pressing national need to lower the age of exposure to the seamy underbelly of sexual perversion whether it be hetro or homo (and there's plenty of both). The agenda seems to be for LBGTs to get into the face of a normal society. If you don't believe that just watch a gay pride parade. To suggest that normality is something being promoted by hucksters on the other side of the country is a bit disingenuous. All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

 

[Flyover]

Okay, you have no problem with your kids being taught about gay anal sex and "switching" their gender by Demonic Satan worshipping drag queens, the school board, teachers and authors of books.

I'll leave you alone.

Presumably most kids learn about anal sex and gender switching from each other by telling jokes, or from their parents by asking out of curiosity. Maybe in 4th grade sex ed, if they haven't yet heard a dirty joke or asked their parents, then they'll ask their teacher. If they learn about it from a man dressed in drag I guess that's another way to learn about it.

 

[Eddie_T]

There's a clear agenda as seen from their websites. They are paying for it initially but when it uses public facilities and public schools we are also contributing to their agenda. The question becomes why is it important to those behind the movement. They are writing the checks to get it accepted, what do they hope to gain from the movement. I suspect their gain becomes our loss.

Drag Story Hour events are happening all over the world at libraries, schools, bookstores, museums, summer camps, afterschool programs, and other community spaces! Each chapter is independently operated and funded.​

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[Flyover]

To me childhood should be a time of innocence. There is no pressing national need to lower the age of exposure to the seamy underbelly

Yes and no. You've had kids, so you know that what happens is you watch them closely and make judgment calls on when they're ready to learn about what.

I never really cared about whether my kids knew where their Christmas presents came from, except inasmuch as "Santa" could be leveraged to make them behave in the midst of their extended family trying to spoil them. If my kids asked me where babies come from, I forthrightly told them, though I didn't get into the details of sexual attraction and what intercourse is like because they'll find that out on their own in just a few years. My kids have asked me why we have wars, and I try not to answer with silly platitudes like "because there's bad guys out there and we have to fight them off", I try to convey the moral and political complexity of war, as well as both its awesomeness and its horror, in a way they can understand but won't make it impossible for them to fall asleep.

As a parent it is wonderful to observe and enjoy the innocence of children. But preserving it at all costs is foolish. The real world is not like the cartoons, and bit by bit they learn this. You don't have to do anything to actively make them learn it, either, but kids who enter the real world having been completely sheltered from its ugliness are unprepared and unnecessarily vulnerable. I've seen what happens to young people who experience the shock of real life all at once, and it's a lot worse than an awkward conversation with their parents or a cringey lesson from a teacher.

The agenda seems to be for LBGTs to get into the face of a normal society. If you don't believe that just watch a gay pride parade.

I don't think LGBT-whatever is some monolithic group. Gay pride parades are one thing, gay people are another. Some of the gay people I know find gay pride parades embarrassing, others find them fun. I find gay pride parades and 4th of July parades both annoying.

To suggest that normality is something being promoted by hucksters on the other side of the country is a bit disingenuous.

No, it's fear and pearl-clutching that are promoted by hucksters. It's a way to rally the troops to get them to do what you want.

All that is needed for evil to prevail is for good men to do nothing.

This is a platitude. Doing something based on fear and ignorance and political grandstanding is worse than doing nothing.

 

[Snoonyb]

Presumably most kids learn about anal sex and gender switching from each other by telling jokes, or from their parents by asking out of curiosity. Maybe in 4th grade sex ed, if they haven't yet heard a dirty joke or asked their parents, then they'll ask their teacher. If they learn about it from a man dressed in drag I guess that's another way to learn about it.

However, most of the jokes originate at the kitchen table, as overheard, and while not a discussion, academically, are relegated, as they should be, to playground antics.

 

[Flyover]

The question becomes why is it important to those behind the movement.

They state why they think it's important: they believe they are fostering in children a sense of open-mindedness and acceptance, presumably hoping this will cause those children to not grow into the kind of people who they (the drag queens) were tormented by while they were growing up.

Maybe not all the drag queens are true believers in this, and some of them have ulterior motives. But why suspect this without evidence?

 

[Snoonyb]

"This is a platitude. Doing something based on fear and ignorance and political grandstanding is worse than doing nothing."

However, between nothing and something, lies the measured approach of reasonableness, that informs.

 

[Eddie_T]

They state why they think it's important: they believe they are fostering in children a sense of open-mindedness and acceptance, presumably hoping this will cause those children to not grow into the kind of people who they (the drag queens) were tormented by while they were growing up.

Maybe not all the drag queens are true believers in this, and some of them have ulterior motives. But why suspect this without evidence?

Do you have documented primary source evidence that their agenda is innocent and that our concern is out of ignorance promoted by controlling hucksters as you imply? I think not, I think our disagreement is merely a clash between proponents of liberalism and conservatism with some ad hominem thrown into the mix.

Was it Lenin that said, Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world.

 

[Spicoli43]

Do you have documented primary source evidence that their agenda is innocent and that our concern is out of ignorance and promoted by controlling hucksters as you imply? I think not, I think our disagreement is merely a clash between proponents of liberalism and conservatism with some ad hominem thrown into the mix.

Was it Lenin that said, Give me just one generation of youth, and I'll transform the whole world.

Well, it isn't Liberalism... They are just pandering to the gay community like they pander to minorities. The entire new gay / trans / drag thing that didn't exist even 15 years ago is purely Demonic.

 

[Eddie_T]

I noticed a trend in the university even back in my day. The pure science and engineering professors were educating while the liberal arts professors seemed intent on altering the world view of their students.

 

[Flyover]

Do you have documented primary source evidence that their agenda is innocent and that our concern is out of ignorance promoted by controlling hucksters as you imply?

By "their" you mean the drag queen story hour organizers? The documented primary evidence of their agenda is whatever statements they've made about it, which seem pretty harmless to me. Secondary evidence would be lack of actual harm done to kids, systemically through that program. (Isolated incidents in which one or two rogue drag queens said or did something inappropriate is not evidence that their agenda is malicious. And in those cases, it isn't evident that kids were harmed unless you count mere exposure to inappropriate material as harm.)

Is there a reason why we should presume guilt before innocence is established and not the other way around?

I think our disagreement is merely a clash between proponents of liberalism and conservatism with some ad hominem thrown into the mix.

I don't promote conservatism or liberalism and I have no interest in that clash, in fact I find it tedious. If I had to describe the higher-level ideas that are guiding my opinions on this it would be stuff like "keep things in perspective", "live and let live", and "kids are smarter and more resilient than you think they are".

The entire new gay / trans / drag thing that didn't exist even 15 years ago

RuPaul was a celebrity 30 years ago. The ancient Greeks as well as the samurai practiced homosexual pedophilia. As for trans, I don't know much about the surgical/hormone-treatment aspect--maybe there have been big innovations in the last 15 years?--but certainly there were cross-dressers and people with gender dysphoria since antiquity. I believe in India, eunuchs have long had their own unique caste. Didn't J Edgar Hoover dress in drag, or was that just a lie made up by his political rivals?

 

[Eddie_T]

I would counter the position of demanding documented harm by suggesting that it would be too late for the current generation by the time that might be made available. Plus one would have to be wary of manipulated data (even an N=1 could represent a disaster). It's best to just nip it in the bud rather than taking the risk.

 

[Flyover]

I would counter the position of demanding documented harm by suggesting that it would be too late for the current generation by the time that might be made available. Plus one would have to be wary of manipulated data (even an N=1 could represent a disaster). It's best to just nip it in the bud rather than taking the risk.

But this is a generalized argument against all freedom, and against privacy too.

 

[Eddie_T]

But this is a generalized argument against all freedom, and against privacy too.

I don't see where either freedom or privacy are threatened or even involved. It comes down to what we consider to be proper education for our kids. Several families in our church already seeing too much liberalism in the public schools chose to become allies in a home schooling program which worked out well for them and their kids. All of which are out in the world now doing well.

People can be free to be abnormal w/o flaunting it, teaching it or pretending it's the new normal.

 

[Flyover]

Several families in our church already seeing too much liberalism in the public schools chose to become allies in a home schooling program which worked out well for them and their kids.

Great! Sounds like a much better solution than trying to gin up fear and anger over whatever it was they for some reason labeled "liberalism".

I don't see where either freedom or privacy are threatened or even involved.

Because it is usually hard to know what long-term effects things will have on kids ("documented harm [...] would be too late for the current generation by the time that might be made available"), so there is much we might "nip in the bud" just to be safe. We might nip in the bud all kinds of music, video games, movies, etc. and other forms of speech, rather than take the risk. To do that, we must curtail the freedom of people to produce that speech, and curtail privacy to make sure people are not consuming it or providing it to their kids under the radar.

 

[Eddie_T]

Great! Sounds like a much better solution than trying to gin up fear and anger over whatever it was they for some reason labeled "liberalism".


Because it is usually hard to know what long-term effects things will have on kids ("documented harm [...] would be too late for the current generation by the time that might be made available"), so there is much we might "nip in the bud" just to be safe. We might nip in the bud all kinds of music, video games, movies, etc. and other forms of speech, rather than take the risk. To do that, we must curtail the freedom of people to produce that speech, and curtail privacy to make sure people are not consuming it or providing it to their kids under the radar.

No one suggested muzzling the enemy, just don't support it with a venue of opportunity. I have read testimonies of people who were abused at an early age and believed they were homosexuals but later escaped the perceived curse. Kids in grammar school are too young to ponder such decisions so nip it in the bud and don't give the drag story hour movement access to impressionable youngsters.