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Chris
Guest
In my mountain house they had some fishy stuff going on. In the kitchen they had a GFI on every plug. I know it probably doesn't hurt but I am wondering where they are required or wanted/ not wanted?
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I was told that one per circuit is all that is needed. Also; I understand it has to be on the outlet nearest the sink in kitchen and bathroom. In my humble opinion they are about as useful as a backflow preventer on every house. I don't know how many contamination issues these things have prevented, but I'll bet there have been a lot of lawsuits over people tripping over the damned things.
I have every outlet in the kitchen GFI protected one for every circuit. GFIC outlets can also be used to bring older wiring that didn’t have a ground wire up to code. There is no need in either case to put one on every outlet that I could see. The first one the feed comes to attaches to the line connection and the rest branch off the load connection.
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havasu
Guest
I'm still lost when trying to configure the GFCI and the "line" versus "load" stuff.
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Chris
Guest
Just for informational reasons, why do we use a GFI? Isn't that also the reason we have breakers?
No Breakers are like what fuses used to be. They do not stop the power until you reach the rating. Say you have a 15 amp breaker if you grab onto the hot wire in one hand and the common in the other your body has a resistance that will determine how much current flows thru you. Chances are you will not reach 15 and just keep passing current. A GFIC looks at the current in the hot leg and the common and they should be the same. If there is another path to ground such as you the hot wire will be carrying the current thru the device and also thru you where the common will only be carrying the current thru the device. As soon as the GFIC measures the imbalance it cuts the power out to everything. You will only see current for a very brief instant and do not have to come anywhere close to what the breaker is rated at.
Another way to look at it is when you start plugging a bunch of George Forman cookers and electric fry pans and coffee makers and toasters all into one line in your kitchen you will trip the breaker and not the GFIC as nothing was ever out of balance.
They do two different jobs the breaker protects your wires from melting down your GFIC protects you.
Another way to look at it is when you start plugging a bunch of George Forman cookers and electric fry pans and coffee makers and toasters all into one line in your kitchen you will trip the breaker and not the GFIC as nothing was ever out of balance.
They do two different jobs the breaker protects your wires from melting down your GFIC protects you.
Many people wire outlets by bringing the power to the first outlet with one set of the screws on the outlet (there are two sets) and then go on to the next outlet using the other set of screws. Thats kind of what line and load are like only GFIC are made and labeled to be used that way.
The correct way I believe even though its done both ways is to make a pig tail connection in the back of a standard outlet box. And just bring a single white and black out to the outlet. The advantage being if you ever need to replace it the whole string wont go down and when you replace you just deal with two wires.
When we first moved to our place if you touched the fridge and the stove you got a low zap. If you stood for maybe a minute like that, then your muscles would tense up and it would be hard to talk. I fixed the problem (loose neutral in the stove wiring) but since the previous owner had multiple heart attacks before selling, I wonder if they were related?
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Chris
Guest
So I have a plug just above and a maybe a foot away from each side of my sink. Do I need a GFI in both of those or just the first plug on the Circuit?
Will it hurt to have a GFI on each? Is it overkill? Will it help anything?
Will it hurt to have a GFI on each? Is it overkill? Will it help anything?
Quiet an assortment of answers and questions here for a product that has been on the market for years.
We first have to ask what is the circuit layout for the kitchen.
It might be possible but, not likely that all the receptacles are from different circuits in which case each circuit should be protected per code requirements.
I'm not a big fan of "grandfathering" electrical. Changes in electrical code are for safety reasons. I'm not saying that everyone should update as code changes but, consider them as a safety upgrades when possible.
Also, be sure not to have the refrigerator on a GFCI protected circuit because if the outlet trips, you will loose all your food. The fridge should ideally be on a dedicated circuit but, if that is not possible, the fridge outlet should be before the GFCI outlet.
We first have to ask what is the circuit layout for the kitchen.
It might be possible but, not likely that all the receptacles are from different circuits in which case each circuit should be protected per code requirements.
I'm not a big fan of "grandfathering" electrical. Changes in electrical code are for safety reasons. I'm not saying that everyone should update as code changes but, consider them as a safety upgrades when possible.
Also, be sure not to have the refrigerator on a GFCI protected circuit because if the outlet trips, you will loose all your food. The fridge should ideally be on a dedicated circuit but, if that is not possible, the fridge outlet should be before the GFCI outlet.
If these outlets by the sink are on the same circuit, you only need one GFCI outlet on the outlet closest to the line power feed. Just make sure you wire it up correctly paying attention to "Line" vs. "Load". If they are on different circuits then you need two GFCI outlets.
GFCI outlets are expensive in comparison to a regular duplex outlets and they can get too sensitive with age, resulting in nuisance trips.
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Chris
Guest
I'm not worried about cost, I just want a proper working system. When I go back to the mountains this weekend I will see what is on what circuit and go from there.
nealtw
Contractor retired
Depending on the age of the house. They used to bring 2 circuits on a three wire, cut the tabs on the outlets and run red to the tops and black to the bottom. This is a head scratcher with gifs, You have to seperate the 2 circuits, easy enough but you have to make double sure you have found them all before turning anything on.
You need to add your location. It makes a difference.
In the USA, for kitchen small appliance branch circuits, you do not a GFCI receptacle at each location. You do need GFCI protection at each location. One GFCI receptacle can protect all the other receptacles on the circuit if you use the LOAD terminals.
In Canada you only need GFCI protection within 1.6 meters of the sink.
In the USA, for kitchen small appliance branch circuits, you do not a GFCI receptacle at each location. You do need GFCI protection at each location. One GFCI receptacle can protect all the other receptacles on the circuit if you use the LOAD terminals.
In Canada you only need GFCI protection within 1.6 meters of the sink.
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Chris
Guest
I'm in beautiful California.
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havasu
Guest
Land of the fruits and nuts!:trophy:
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Chris
Guest
Don't forget you're my neighbor. Which one are you?
nealtw
Contractor retired
A nut is a fruit composed of a hard shell and a seed, which is generally edible. Wikipedia
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Chris
Guest
I'm sure they do. I will also have to get permission From all my neighbors before I can install. Also have a plan drawn up by a civil engineer.
