Which brand of pavers

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slownsteady

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We've been shopping the local suppliers and there are many brands of pavers available. Just looking for some opinions on the various brands and your experiences - good or bad - with them.

Couple other questions: Since the pavers will be installed over concrete and i will need to install a tread in front in order to make a proper step down to the driveway, how do I handle drainage of any water that gets under the pavers? Does polymeric sand seal the gaps or is it porous?
 

slownsteady

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yep, slope is good. I think I'll be able to go right over existing concrete with a thin base of sand (concrete dust). I have to check whether I'll get away with a single step or not when I add in the height (thickness) of the pavers and base. I will probably put a course of retaining wall block in front of the concrete to make a clean ledge for the tread.
 

mudmixer

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slowndsteady -

What kind of pavers? - concrete, ceramic/tile?

What is the thickness and the horizontal dimensions? - There are many different combinations.

Generally, for real concrete pavers (roughly brick sized, but in different shapes, but about 2 3/8" thick), they are laid on a 1"sand bed and evened out and compacted with a vibratory plate compactor.

If they are the wider and thinner "stepping stone" types, the installation requirement should be available from the manufacturer or dealer.

Dick
 

slownsteady

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We're going with concrete pavers..2 3/8" thick, various sizes on the large scale. We've been told that the larger slabs are more stable and we like the design options. Looking at Cambridge Ledgestone XL or techobloc 60mm Blu. Big difference in price per sqft. One yard also has a deal on CST pavers at $1.50/sqft. ...a great deal, but we're not convinced that CST blocks are of decent quality, and it looks like they are discontinued.

Your installation tips are dead on with what we have heard.

techo.png

Cambridgexl.png
 

bud16415

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I have put down a fair share of them and also brick but always laid them over earth with stone and sand. Putting them over a slab would be new to me. I actually think I would start out with nothing under them just let the water run out as it always has. If some of them rocked a little I would just shim a corner with a piece of shingle or tar paper or something like that. They also have some kind of glue now for retaining walls and such maybe that would work or use it on the outer row to hold them from moving and let the rest float.

I know you had some photos of the garage ditch do you have any of the porch area?
 

slownsteady

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I have some pics. i'll post them in a bit.
Bud; the one inch of sand between the pavers and the concrete shouldn't be a problem and that would be a good medium for drainage. The problem as I see it is the tread in front. I have to have something fastened down to hold the pavers from moving off the step. If I mortar a limestone tread down to the concrete, that will form a dam, I think. So I was wondering if I need weep holes. But then I hear that polymeric sand will seal the pavers. Is that true? No water ever getting under the pavers?

The downspout to the left is where the trench is for the drainpipe that is part of this project.

IMAG0855.jpg
 
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bud16415

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I don’t really know but I would rather have stringers under them than sand in this application. I just see the sand washing out and or holding water swelling up with freeze thaw etc. Get some PT 5/4 decking and rip strips and lay them down the grade line. Set the pavers on top now you have a path for water to flow out. Repair the edge of the slab before you start.
25 years ago I bought an outdoor carpet rem from a carpet store. It was left over from an outside deck at the country club and the carpet guy told me I would be dead before it wore out as the golfers back then would walk on it with spikes and it was made for that. I covered my back entry a little smaller than yours with it and 3 steps going up to mine. I had no idea how to carpet steps with this stuff so I cut it and formed 90’s in it by beating it with a hammer to form the corner. Once I bent it one step at a time I glued it to the concrete with construction liquid nails. That green rug 25 years later still looks new and the glue has never let go.

My point is I think you could glue the stringers down and glue the pavers to the stringers. Never did it but you asked for ideas.
 

mudmixer

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I made a calculating error in my previews post. The most common paver thickness is 80 mm (about 3-1/8"). The 60 mm pavers are about 2-3/8" thick. The 80 mm are used for much heavier loads because the thickness allows to units to resist loads and create a stronger interlocked surface. Sorry about the error.

The pavers you showed are out of the size limits (too long or wide) for real structural pavers. The units shown appear to have vertical ridges on the side to create a space for a sand fill that will allow water to permeate, no mater what type of sand is used. This indicated that the surface will not be "water resistant".

Creating a dam to prevent the water to drain out beyond the paved area. If the lateral drainage is blocked, the "pavers"/ stone units can "swim" over the saturated sand. Larger, thinner pavers are more likely to crack even from people walking or even a point load from a chair and person.

If the units shown on your data sheet are actually real slate to get the vertical ridges, I would love to see how they do it. Perhaps the reference to slate was just to the color and not the basic material.

Dick
 

slownsteady

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Thanks, guys.
Bud: whatever I use underneath still needs to be able to drain to the front step. i don't think I want to see the stringers (not sayin' that I would use them), so I would still have a face to obstruct flow.
Mixer: the slate designation in the spec sheet refers to the style of finish. It is a concrete block. Techo-Bloc is specific about not using these in traffic areas. Fortunately, it is just the entryway that would get the bigger slabs. I'm not particularly worried about the trench in front of the driveway, as a car hasn't seen the inside of that place since the '90's. but i think I might get the matching 80mm if i want to match exactly. Otherwise, I'll use a holland stone or something similar for that area.
 

bud16415

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I would extend the stringers out an inch past the end of the slab and also the pavers then attach a face strip to the end of the stringers that would come up to flush with the paver surface and hide the ends and hold the pavers. Water will run thru the pavers across the slab and exit out behind the face strip in the 1” gap. Not sure if you could get away with PT 2x4 as stringers if you could that would work out perfect with a PT 2x6 as the face piece.
 

slownsteady

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I think if I was going to take it that far, i would just forget the pavers and deck over the concrete with decent composite boards. Which, by the way, has been brought up as an option just a day or two ago.
 

bud16415

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I would do that also. I thought you were going for the paver brick deck look. I would much rather cut wood than pavers any day.
 

slownsteady

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yeah, right:D

We def like the look of pavers better, and the tie-in to the driveway repair would be nicer. But we are looking at all the options and getting prices for supplies. We could still make it look nice by bringing the paver border all the way across the front.
 

slownsteady

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We took a good look at decking this area but decided against it. Since this is the most used entry, slipperyness and especially winter use were a concern and seemed to be a problem with most composite lumber. Additionally, some composite lumber was specific about needing 6" of space below the deck to prevent moisture problems, and I don't have six inches to spare.

The next phase in this project is a foundation & framing problem:
http://www.houserepairtalk.com/showthread.php?t=19420
 

slownsteady

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Thanks. I've been concentrating on the framing issues recently. Can't start on the pavers till I straighten that out. But we are planning on putting stone veneer below the windows, and probably on the sides (about 12"-18" up the wall)

Had an odd thought yesterday: I have some curtain drain left over from a previous project. You guys think it would be helpful if cut it into a thin strip and placed along the wall? it would only extend a few inches down along the foundation and there would still be concrete below that. just wondering if it would help drainage and cushion the pavers.
 
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