Converting the attic into a living space

[love2xlr8]

Hello all,

I'm in process of converting the attic into a living space and partially storage.

I'm in North NJ build in the early 90's with some insulation already.

Since I will do most of the work myself, I will take my time and try to do it right, and looking for suggestions on the insulation type, radiant barriers and all that good stuff.

We do get a good few months of hot summer and pretty cold winters so i need to take that into consideration. The attic spreads out above the master bedroom, part of bathrooms and the other 2 rooms on the second floor below.

The attic floor is currently covered with the pink R-23 insulation wall to wall, the outside wall have very little insulation.
After I do the air seal all over the place..

1.Does it make sense to and some more insulation on the top of the R-23 the floor has because it looks in good shape, or should i remove it all together and put a new one ?
2. Side walls I was thinking of using R-60.
3. Not sure on the Radiant barriers though need some advise on them.
These are the things that will get me going for now..

Appreciate the feedback..

 

[nealtw]

It is important to maintain the air flow from the soffet to the peak, build you knee walls out of 2x6 and add to the rafter so you have about 8" for insulation and air flow.

 

[bud16415]

Right now your attic is a cold space outside the homes thermal blanket, thus the insulation in the attic floor. You will be changing it to a conditioned space and making the thermal blanket the roof. Follow Neal’s advice on making a new cold zone against the roof for air flow and the insulation now in the floor will be doing nothing except sound deadening between the floors as they will be the same temp on both sides.

How do you plan on heating and cooling the space?

 

[love2xlr8]

I have forced air for heating / AC, i have on feed, and will tap to another from one of the rooms below, also will tap into the return from the same room.

If that don't do the trick, probably portable heater and AC.

Right now your attic is a cold space outside the homes thermal blanket, thus the insulation in the attic floor. You will be changing it to a conditioned space and making the thermal blanket the roof. Follow Neal’s advice on making a new cold zone against the roof for air flow and the insulation now in the floor will be doing nothing except sound deadening between the floors as they will be the same temp on both sides.

How do you plan on heating and cooling the space?

 

[nealtw]

I have forced air for heating / AC, i have on feed, and will tap to another from one of the rooms below, also will tap into the return from the same room.

If that don't do the trick, probably portable heater and AC.

Tell us about the roof structure, how much do you have to remove to open it up?
Ceiling joists and rafters are not usually heavy enough for the transition.

 

[love2xlr8]

If i understood your question correctly, the only thing i like to remove if possible are the 2x4's that go across which will give me more clearance in return, but i know they support the roof and i'm scratching my head if there is a was for the support without the 2x4's..

See picture.

Tell us about the roof structure, how much do you have to remove to open it up?
Ceiling joists and rafters are not usually heavy enough for the transition.

 

[nealtw]

The collar ties are important for two reasons. They hold the rafters stiff in a triangle, so they lean on each other. With out them you would need a ridge vent or box vent for every bay on both side.
You might raise them a little, I would be happy to leave them if you can get 90" for ceiling height. Min. height for any room is 80 inches.

 

[love2xlr8]

The problem is that they're about 65", that's why i wanted to get rid of them..

The collar ties are important for two reasons. They hold the rafters stiff in a triangle, so they lean on each other. With out them you would need a ridge vent or box vent for every bay on both side.
You might raise them a little, I would be happy to leave them if you can get 90" for ceiling height. Min. height for any room is 80 inches.

 

[nealtw]

Snow and wind load are the big concerns. As the load comes on the triangle formed here is what keeps every thing up.
If the roof was designed for that the ridge board you have would be a beam, a big beam with extra support all the way to the foundation and that section of the foundation might have had extra support with an over sized footing.
So you will be adding knee walls that will add support but now you have to look at the floor joists and their span, in short will they carry that extra load when it snows.
In new construction the cheapest way to do this is with bonus room trusses. You can see how they have formed a triangle at the top and on both sides to keep everything ridged.
If you google bonus room trusses and check out images you won't find any that are less than a 10/12 pitch, most are 12/12 pitch.

 

[love2xlr8]

I actually have the knee walls, but not sure if they provide any support or load for that matter..

See picture, just ignore the mess ...

Snow and wind load are the big concerns. As the load comes on the triangle formed here is what keeps every thing up.
If the roof was designed for that the ridge board you have would be a beam, a big beam with extra support all the way to the foundation and that section of the foundation might have had extra support with an over sized footing.
So you will be adding knee walls that will add support but now you have to look at the floor joists and their span, in short will they carry that extra load when it snows.
In new construction the cheapest way to do this is with bonus room trusses. You can see how they have formed a triangle at the top and on both sides to keep everything ridged.
If you google bonus room trusses and check out images you won't find any that are less than a 10/12 pitch, most are 12/12 pitch.

 

[nealtw]

They did install the studs directly below the rafters, do you know if that was there when the house was built or just added later.
What size floor joists do you have.
Measure the height of the bottom of the ridge board?

 

[love2xlr8]

I'm not 100% since im the 3rd owner, but the way it looked it seemed thats how it was build..

This is a townhouse if it makes any difference..

 

[nealtw]

I'm not 100% since im the 3rd owner, but the way it looked it seemed thats how it was build..

Evan if it was intended to carry a load the engineering included the collar ties

Only that you are changing the structure of the outside envelope and any damage caused by you will or may effect other units.:hide:

Keep in mind, re-sale value. Any good home inspector will pick up on the missing ties and call for an engineers report, so with that in mind what ever you come up with you want to over do it and take photos of what you have done so it can be inspected with out removing stuff and you might get away with it.

Is it you intention to heat and use the area behind the knee wall for storage?
I do have suggestions.

 

[nealtw]

I'm not 100% since im the 3rd owner, but the way it looked it seemed thats how it was build..

Evan if it was intended to carry a load the engineering included the collar ties

Only that you are changing the structure of the outside envelope and any damage caused by you will or may effect other units.:hide:

Keep in mind, re-sale value. Any good home inspector will pick up on the missing ties and call for an engineers report, so with that in mind what ever you come up with you want to over do it and take photos of what you have done so it can be inspected with out removing stuff and you might get away with it.

Is it you intention to heat and use the area behind the knee wall for storage?

 

[love2xlr8]

What size floor joists do you have.

2x6
Measure the height of the bottom of the ridge board?[/QUOTE]

About 10".

 

[love2xlr8]

I agree with you and i know the implication of the resale value, but my main concern is the safety..

Yes, that's my plan for the area behind the knee walls, to be used for storage.

Evan if it was intended to carry a load the engineering included the collar ties



Only that you are changing the structure of the outside envelope and any damage caused by you will or may effect other units.:hide:

Keep in mind, re-sale value. Any good home inspector will pick up on the missing ties and call for an engineers report, so with that in mind what ever you come up with you want to over do it and take photos of what you have done so it can be inspected with out removing stuff and you might get away with it.

Is it you intention to heat and use the area behind the knee wall for storage?

 

[nealtw]

2x6s are never enough for for a floor or moving a load from the knee wall to the outside wall.
Would you be allowed to make changes to the roof like adding a ridge vent or a whole bunch of box vents?

The only thing I have seen when some trusses were assembled wrong they had us add a triangle of 3/4" plywood to firmly attach the joist to the rafter and the knee wall. The worry here is a big load on one side can push the roof and the knee wall , if it does carry the load will act like a fulcrum and the nails holding the rafters to the wall could be pulled out. Then the question becomes how many of these triangle would be enough.

 

[love2xlr8]

Would you be allowed to make changes to the roof like adding a ridge vent or a whole bunch of box vents?

Possible, but might not be worth the aggravation..

Currently there are 4 vents, and an opening 15"x10" "window" to the side wall.

The only thing I have seen when some trusses were assembled wrong they had us add a triangle of 3/4" plywood to firmly attach the joist to the rafter and the knee wall. The worry here is a big load on one side can push the roof and the knee wall , if it does carry the load will act like a fulcrum and the nails holding the rafters to the wall could be pulled out. Then the question becomes how many of these triangle would be enough.[/QUOTE]

So its seems is not as easy as I thought..

 

[nealtw]

Keep in mind that drywall 5/8 x 4x8 is about 65 lbs so you would be adding quite a bit to the dead load.
If you want to go ahead I would strongly suggest you consult an engineer and the rules that you have for the complex.
Even if you don't go ahead, there are some insulation issues I think I can see.

 

[love2xlr8]

Yes, and I'm glad i found this site as i might have made a mistake..

As far as the rules are concern, i can pretty much can do anything internal, as long as is approved and appropriate, very little to anything outside can be changed.

Does it matter how much spacing is between the beams ? I was told by a contractor few years ago that the floor can hold pretty heavy loads..

Keep in mind that drywall 5/8 x 4x8 is about 65 lbs so you would be adding quite a bit to the dead load.
If you want to go ahead I would strongly suggest you consult an engineer and the rules that you have for the complex.
Even if you don't go ahead, there are some insulation issues I think I can see.