Converting the attic into a living space

[love2xlr8]

Sorry, I dozed off last night..

I get the 10ft for the stair, but not sure on how will you hit the wall when i have about 15' of clearance anyway you look at, inside and outside the entrance.

So, if you stand in that door way and run a tape measure to the other wall, you have 7 ft, extend that tape out to 10 ft and see that your stairs interfere with that other door. Now come back to the door frame and measure up from the floor measure up 24 inches and mark that with a pencil. Now measure from that mark to the ceiling in the hall way. That is what you bump your head on when you are standing on the third step.

 

[love2xlr8]

And that's exactly my thinking on doing, but again, not sure myself of the local codes, but i know one thing the contractor who build the entire development cut so many corners that and still got way with it.

The rule of thumb I often use is the rise plus the run should always be 18”. Neal is talking about a comfortable climb of 8” of rise and 10” of run 7 & 11 is even an easier climb. I don’t know code inside and out or what pertains in your neck of the woods but I believe around here attic access can be steeper and they would allow a 9” rise and 9” run without any problem as long as it is attic access. I mean they allow pull down steps that are 11” rise 7” run more like a step ladder.

Assuming you want the space as a man cave some light’s , heat etc. I wouldn’t sell it to the engineer or anyone that it was living space only that I wanted a conditioned attic space for storage that you can walk around in. it is not unreasonable to want your stuff stored where it won’t be cooked in the summer and froze in the winter. If you sell it as a bedroom or anything other than a storage place they are going to ask for egress plans for fire and the whole 9 yards.

If that flies you will still need to figure out venting for the room and how to insulate it. Keep in mind the space will get smaller as you build the sloped ceiling out for insulation and maybe the floor up if the 2x6 are not enough. Right now you have collar ties on every other rafter. They may let you move them up if you put one on every rafter. You need at least 6’6” not by code just by common sense to walk around up there.

If you get that far then you can store a 42” tv up there and a lazy boy recliner with a dorm fridge beside it for an end table. When you sell the house someday you advertise it as a finished attic great place to keep Xmas stuff.

 

[bud16415]

Do you have a dry basement? I have always went down with my man cave desires when I could.

 

[love2xlr8]

I do, but its already taken

Kids playroom.

Do you have a dry basement? I have always went down with my man cave desires when I could.

 

[nealtw]

The rule of thumb I often use is the rise plus the run should always be 18”. Neal is talking about a comfortable climb of 8” of rise and 10” of run 7 & 11 is even an easier climb. I don’t know code inside and out or what pertains in your neck of the woods but I believe around here attic access can be steeper and they would allow a 9” rise and 9” run without any problem as long as it is attic access. I mean they allow pull down steps that are 11” rise 7” run more like a step ladder.

Assuming you want the space as a man cave some light’s , heat etc. I wouldn’t sell it to the engineer or anyone that it was living space only that I wanted a conditioned attic space for storage that you can walk around in. it is not unreasonable to want your stuff stored where it won’t be cooked in the summer and froze in the winter. If you sell it as a bedroom or anything other than a storage place they are going to ask for egress plans for fire and the whole 9 yards.

If that flies you will still need to figure out venting for the room and how to insulate it. Keep in mind the space will get smaller as you build the sloped ceiling out for insulation and maybe the floor up if the 2x6 are not enough. Right now you have collar ties on every other rafter. They may let you move them up if you put one on every rafter. You need at least 6’6” not by code just by common sense to walk around up there.

If you get that far then you can store a 42” tv up there and a lazy boy recliner with a dorm fridge beside it for an end table. When you sell the house someday you advertise it as a finished attic great place to keep Xmas stuff.

You're right it is living space and outside stairs that have a max height of 8" commercial is even less. and the landing top or bottom has to be 36" long

Min head room changed at the same time that doors went to 80", I think that changed somewhere in the 60s.

 

[nealtw]

Sorry, I dozed off last night..

I get the 10ft for the stair, but not sure on how will you hit the wall when i have about 15' of clearance anyway you look at, inside and outside the entrance.

So looking again at the last picture in post 38. Are you saying you can cut away part of that wall with pink insulation in it?

Then we need to know what structure is in there, is that a bearing wall or does the same roof line continue over that room?

We haven't talked about what they did to the structure when the made the hole for the stairs.

 

[love2xlr8]

That wall leads to the hallway, the hallway is an open area with high ceiling and skylights the almost the size of 2 stories about 16 feet high..

Its not a bearing wall..

So looking again at the last picture in post 38. Are you saying you can cut away part of that wall with pink insulation in it?

Then we need to know what structure is in there, is that a bearing wall or does the same roof line continue over that room?

We haven't talked about what they did to the structure when the made the hole for the stairs.

 

[love2xlr8]

Codes aside, and taking into the consideration that the place will mostly utilized in the area behind the knee wall for storage and most of the traffic will be getting bins in and out of there, and the "living area" will be more for me to catch a hockey/football/soccer game maybe with a friend once in a blue and enjoy a nice cold brew or a movie a every so often, but definitely I wont be taking a shower and running upstairs everyday.
As much as i like the height to be a conformable 84" or more i could tolerate lower as i'll be seating my behind.

That being said, is there anyway to finish it, with adding some more support either doubling the 2x6, or adding 2x10 for the living area, closing the ceiling lighter materials such as wood panels instead of sheetrock, and lighter flooring.. Safety is my priority, I would make sure that the floor can support the weight 100% for what i intend to do, otherwise would be ohh well moment..

 

[nealtw]

That wall leads to the hallway, the hallway is an open area with high ceiling and skylights the almost the size of 2 stories about 16 feet high..

Its not a bearing wall..

So there is no change of direction in the outside roof line between the attic and the high ceiling next to it? You are likely right but I just want to make sure.

Now I do have to ask some questions about the hole for the stairs. You have a basement, are there walls below both side wall of the stair opening?

 

[love2xlr8]

So there is no change of direction in the outside roof line between the attic and the high ceiling next to it? You are likely right but I just want to make sure.

No

Now I do have to ask some questions about the hole for the stairs. You have a basement, are there walls below both side wall of the stair opening?

Again, if i understand youi correctly no they are not..

 

[nealtw]

Now I really feel like I am picking on you.

The guy that cut that hole should have done a lot more for structure.
Is the ceiling in the basement finished or can you still see the floor joists?
It is bad enough with what has been cut out already, all the weight form the ceiling and the knee wall has been transferred to the lower floor but if you want to extend the hole by cutting into that upper wall you would also be cutting one or two more ceiling joist out, do you have wall to carry that load.

 

[love2xlr8]

Now I really feel like I am picking on you.

Are you kidding me, i really appreciate you input.. Actually i leaned a lot about attic, i was under the impression that you just slap some plywood and walls and call it a day..

The guy that cut that hole should have done a lot more for structure.

For example ? Because he might have done it some how correctly but you can't see it in the pictures..
Is the ceiling in the basement finished or can you still see the floor joists?
It is bad enough with what has been cut out already, all the weight form the ceiling and the knee wall has been transferred to the lower floor but if you want to extend the hole by cutting into that upper wall you would also be cutting one or two more ceiling joist out, do you have wall to carry that load.

NO more cutting, as it will take way from my bathroom, besides this space was kind of pre-made dead space if that we made it into the attic entrance..

I'm trying to build a 3D design, not sure how well will come out..

 

[nealtw]

So if you can't cut anymore floor joists out, cut the wall out above the stairs doesn't help as the floor will be in the way.
So stairs to code is " no " it can't be done. The ceiling would have to be cut back at least one or two ft.

There are a few ways stairs can be framed in a new house but in a reno the choices are limited.
In the last picture in post #38, what we see there is fine if both walls were load bearing. As they are not load bearing the joist should be hung with hangers onto a double floor joist, the double floor joist should extend out to the next uncut floor joist and hung off of that. AS you are adding all that weight to the uncut joist at each end they would be doubled or tripled up. depending on the weight calculation.
The other way he would deal with this would be to put a beam in the basement under each wall with load posted down to the floor which would require a hole cut in the floor to add a footing.

 

[bud16415]

Do we know it wasn’t framed that way? It sounds like the original builder made a closet that was very long and deep. Why would he do that unless it was an option the original owner didn’t care to have stairs in there? I don’t know just wondering maybe there is something in the pics I’m not seeing.

 

[nealtw]

Do we know it wasn’t framed that way? It sounds like the original builder made a closet that was very long and deep. Why would he do that unless it was an option the original owner didn’t care to have stairs in there? I don’t know just wondering maybe there is something in the pics I’m not seeing.

It was a closet for the bedroom behind that new drywall.
If it was framed for that we would expect to see more framing there or in the basement.

 

[love2xlr8]

Its not you, the pictures i took, just tell a fraction of the story..

Do we know it wasn’t framed that way? It sounds like the original builder made a closet that was very long and deep. Why would he do that unless it was an option the original owner didn’t care to have stairs in there? I don’t know just wondering maybe there is something in the pics I’m not seeing.

 

[love2xlr8]

It was a closet for the bedroom behind that new drywall.

It was an opening in the room behind it, not quite a closet..

If it was framed for that we would expect to see more framing there or in the basement.

The level below is not the basement btw, the level below is the living room, and dining room.

Basement is in the basement .. The second level below..

 

[nealtw]

The level below is not the basement btw, the level below is the living room, and dining room.

Basement is in the basement .. The second level below..

Yes I understood that. Is the basement ceiling finished?

 

[nealtw]

I did find a photo to help explain the head room problem. This building was designed for the stairs to run the other way.

 

[slownsteady]

If you're not too concerned about doing it all to code, and you are okay with a steep stairway as "attic access", then you shouldn't have to cut any more framing to get there. So the questions becomes; 1) can you fit a comfortable room up there without screwing up the ventilation or roof structure? 2) If you move the load off the exterior walls, do you have enough strength in the interior walls to support the changes? (or something like that). It seems that we are talking about lots of factors without answering any single question.