Healthcare costs.

[frodo]

I think if we went back , BUt made it so you could buy out of state insurance, the rates would go down due to competition

open market, competition works
or am i wrong?

 

[Chris]

What do you mean by buy out of state?

 

[zannej]

I thought many of the insurance companies service most states, so I don't think there is a lack of competition.

I really do think we need to start with the price gouging problem and whittle down the prices to something reasonable and then the insurance companies might not have to spend as much money and then they wouldn't be able to justify charging so much.

I just don't know exactly how we'd go about doing it though.

 

[nealtw]

Years ago our agreement with emplyees required we pay for the dental plan. The insurance company said our group was to small so they put us in with a few other group about the same size. One you they raised the rate by 300%. When I phoned to complain I was told it was right as all they do is tally up last years expences add 20% and divide that by the number of people in the plan. It turned out that all the other companies in the group had gone out of business and we were to pay for last years expences.:banana:

 

[oldognewtrick]

What do you mean by buy out of state?

Ins companies are not allowed to cross state lines. I have Blue Cross/Blue Shield. It's BC/BS of Tennessee. So they form a company for each state they provide in. Opening up the market would make for more completion.

It's not legal to form a group solely for the purpose of buying ins. Allowing groups would make for bigger pools.

Zanne raised the question about the reserves that ins companies have, they are required to keep these reserves by law so if there are massive claims, funds are there to pay them.

The reason I'm against the ACA, is it's created much gov't regulation, hasn't increased the amount of people who have ins, we still have the same amount of people who are not covered by any ins. I feel the govt has enough control over our lives. If this program is so great why have the 100's of companies been allowed to opt out of it? Why isn't this the program that congress has?

If this was implemented so that every American was enrolled, everyone paid in to it and was provided quality coverage, I'd jump on board. The ACA isn't about ins, it's about wealth redistribution as Chris has found out with his rate increases.

 

[bud16415]

I thought I was in good health until I read this thread and now I have high blood pressure a migraine headache possible bleeding anus and for sure constipation.

My view point will change no one’s mind and I only have one vote as do we all. I almost wrote a long post explaining my views on the subject but I really only see one poster maybe two that have any chance of with an open mind looking for truth out of all the talking points that have flowed so freely in this thread. So out of respect for the true nature of this forum I will refrain from stirring the pot and hearing the preprogramed rebuttals I have heard a 1000 times before.

I would ask those that post respect the viewpoint of those you disagree with when I see someone take the time to write a 1000 word reply and then cheapen the meaning of those words by using slang name calling like calling the party of nearly half the registered voters in the country “ Tpublicans” repeatedly. Sometimes being cute is being too cute.

I will end this with saying I’m as compassionate of a person to my fellow man as anyone can be and my viewpoint on all these issues is based around compassion. For the one or two people that may be reading this with a totally open mind think about what is true compassion and what is the relationship of the bigger picture with this issue at hand. Think back on the lessons of your own life and how your parents taught you and how that reflects the person you are today. If you felt your parents showed you compassion and taught you right, think about those lessons and how they formed your ideals. They grew up in harder times most likely as did their parents before them but they were happy controlling their destiny. Life is not supposed to be easy or given to us in this country. It is supposed to be worked for and the strong are supposed help the weak and the children and the old.

 

[Chris]

Well Said Bud!

 

[zannej]

Thanks for that explanation, oldog. I really should learn more about how this system works.
I didn't realize the issue about insurance companies in different states. The medical in Louisiana is so atrocious that my father had to go to Texas for some treatments, but the insurance still covered it-- but that was prior to 2009. Is the state line thing something new?

Bud, I'd be interested in reading your thoughts if you'd like to PM them to me.

I do know one of the issues is that its hard to find the right balance of how much help to provide or who to help and when. People need to know how to take care of themselves and stand on their own; that said, there are some people who are unable to take care of themselves due to physical or mental health issues. But its tough to figure out which people legitimately need help and which ones are just mooching. The jackasses who are currently abusing the system are just ruining it for everyone involved.

 

[nealtw]

Bud; I agree and maybe feel even more strongly about it. This is not a political site and there should be a hard and fast rule about that. I like a good debate and don't really care which side I have to defend, it is mostly just fun. But this is not the place for it. I have noticed that when things do come up the guilty parties are most of the time regulars, the people like us that have an opinion and don't mind sharing it. And yes you can find places where I crossed the line too.
I came here thinking I could help people who were down and out after the market crash. It didn't take long to see people of all stripes were coming for help. Even some well off people can lose everything to a fire, flood and illness. Once I have helped someone I feel I have made a freind and there are freinds I haven't met yet.
As everyone is welcome here, when those off handed insults start, they are aimed at freinds of mine and it pisses me off.

 

[Chris]

I just wish everyone else in America could be forced to pay what I am paying for healthcare just to see how it feels. I am paying more for healthcare than a mortgage. It's easy to say how great things are when they are not effecting you personally. I am paying almost 15% of my gross income to a healthcare policy before any copay or costs are incurred. Put yourself in my shoes for a minute.

 

[oldognewtrick]

I usually find when someone starts attacking someone personally instead of debating the issue its because they have a position they can't defend. I take it with a grain of salt.

As someone said once, sticks and stones can hurt, words can't.

If we can keep this civil, we'll keep it open. Personal attacks from anyone will not be tolerated.

 

[havasu]

On a side note, when I retired, I lost my dental insurance. The gal from Human Resources gave me a great tip which may help others in the same predicament. Costco Members (currently only in California, but is expanding rapidly!) have an option to purchase Delta Dental HMO or PPO Insurance at a fraction of the cost for an individual rate, because you are grouped with all other members. I pay $90 a year for a solo plan, but the family plan was about $190, for the entire family. This includes 2 teeth cleaning trips, and massive discounts on any and all other major treatments.

I also don't know for sure, but was told Sam's Club offers a similar program. Just check around before paying out the big bucks!

 

[nealtw]

I just wish everyone else in America could be forced to pay what I am paying for healthcare just to see how it feels. I am paying more for healthcare than a mortgage. It's easy to say how great things are when they are not effecting you personally. I am paying almost 15% of my gross income to a healthcare policy before any copay or costs are incurred. Put yourself in my shoes for a minute.

We can put ourselves on your shoes and understand it hurts.
I read this somewhere.

They Tax everything here and you have to pay to use a restroom at most major places. We have to pay to drive on some of the busiest highways around.


These are fixed taxes, work out the percentage of your income for that, then figure it out for someone trying to feed a family at $20,000. Do you understand?

 

[havasu]

Neal, I seemed to always get into an argument with my brother in law when we discussed wages and benefits for government workers. He was disgusted to find out how much I receive in retirement and my medical benefits. I told him I worked long and hard for my position, and went to 5 years of college to be able to earn what I did. I told him if he didn't smoke dope through his teen years while flipping burgers at Mcdonald's, maybe he too might be making more money.

For the unfortunate folks that fell on hardship, I do have compassion. For the lazy asses who never even tried to apply themselves to better their careers, well, I have no compassion and I sure as hell don't think that I should help carry them, since they don't carry themselves.

 

[nealtw]

I usually find when someone starts attacking someone personally instead of debating the issue its because they have a position they can't defend. I take it with a grain of salt.

As someone said once, sticks and stones can hurt, words can't.

If we can keep this civil, we'll keep it open. Personal attacks from anyone will not be tolerated.

Don't kid yourself; names do hurt and people are turned off and leave, I know that because I have been told by people leaving.
I would put Chris's taxes including healthcare % up against a low wage earners % any day,
Implying that some don't pay there share hasn't got a background in thoughtful fact checking. And I think it is crap.

 

[oldognewtrick]

I understand what you're saying Neal, but when I buy groceries, gas, electric, clothes, etc I pay what everyone else pays. When I buy health ins it's based on my income. Should I pay more for groceries, that's more important than health ins.

 

[Chris]

I do understand and all those things I mentioned over there are avoidable. If 23 dollars a month covers insurance if you make 20k a year than 23 a month should also cover my insurance? Just like with auto, home, life or any other insurance out there they don't base it off your income. The only reason they would base it off income is to see if they feel you can afford more and pay more than someone else. Trust me I do agree that it would be nice for everyone to be able to afford health care but I don't agree that I should pay more than someone else because I have strived for a better living. It might be different where you live but here in CA this is the land of opportunity, you can be anything you want to be. It is very simple to make a good living here. my nephew washes buses for 30k a year and he is still in high school. I totally understand if there is a health issue for why you can't work but for the most part people are abled but not willing. Take my friend, he is 36 years old and makes less than 20k a year and is on all the government assistance there is and complains he can't find a job but not once in the last year has he left the house in search for work.

Like I said I agree Insurance should be affordable but by making it affordable to the poor they are making it not affordable to the working class. My wife works full time and doesn't even bring home enough to cover the daycare and health insurance, i float her car payment and fuel because that is cheaper than paying for the health insurance and having her sit at home raising the kids.

I just feel like I am being penalized for saving and doing things right in life.

 

[frodo]

what has my wife and i worried is the health care site. It has been said by the people that run the site. it is not safe from hackers, has never been safe. and has been hacked already. . That on top of the IRS being in charge of the whole thing. has us. opting to pay the fine, instead of signing up for their health care. In hopes. It will fall in on itself next year. If it does not. we will bite the bullet, sign up. and take our chances . Fingers crossed

 

[Chris]

I did the math, 23 a month for my friend and his family from the ACA is just over 1% of his annual income. I would be ok with giving 5%.

Heck I would be ok with a flat tax for it I guess to. We can all pay 5%?

 

[frodo]

I would be ok with 15% flat tax for everything. state,fed, fica, aca, and sales tax



edited in,,, that ALL Americans pay the same thing, NO carve outs for ANYONE

that includes the president all the way down the chain of command to the dishwasher