Improper plumbing & trying to remodel bathroom/laundry

[zannej]

Ron Van, I use the pro version. I just splurged and got some of Fredo's plugins but I need to install them. I'm still terrible at lining up the pipes in sketchup though.
I just got completely distracted by one of my cats running around the room like a nutjob. He's now hollering at me.
Anyway, upon further research I discovered that the suds relief rule is obsolete with the newer front-load machines. My revised sketch:

And I can use these for where the pipes go through exterior walls: Low Profile Master Flash®

 

[Ron Van]

Ron Van, My revised sketch:
View attachment 28572

How far is the toilet from the main vent stack?

 

[zannej]

How far is the toilet from the main vent stack?

~5' and it has to be within 6'. But I can run it to the wall a little bit closer and then branch over (as I don't want to conflict with water supply lines and other stuff).
I'm starting to think rather than adding 45s to the vent or drain on the lav I can jut push it all the way through the wall and have a membrane designed specifically for pipes going through exterior walls. Low Profile Master Flash® and then have it go under the house. I can wrap the exposed drain part in insulation.

One concern I have about connecting to that vent is that I think it is only 2" (if it is that large) and if I am reading the rules properly, it can only handle 6dfu and I'd be putting 8 dfu on it. However, the shower will never be run while the laundry is running so the max that would be running at one time is 5. (toilet and washing machine are 3dfu each and tub is 2dfu). It's unlikely the toilet would be flushed while the shower is running. I could be mistaken on the max dfu for a 2" vent though.

 

[zannej]

I'm going to need new walls around my tub/shower. Found a potential one but its' out of stock. 59" and I have a 60" space but I can make it 59" or thereabouts with some cementboard. Might still look and see what they have in stock locally at the hardware store. I'm looking at glue-up stuff. Wish I could find direct-to-stud for a decent price that would fit with my current tub. I believe this tub has no flange though. For the cementboard I'm looking at: https://www.lowes.com/pd/James-Hardie-0-42-in-x-36-in-x-60-in-Fiber-Cement-Backer-Board/1001066302
It's $24/sheet and only 3'x5' so I will need more boards. Also considering the purple drywall https://www.lowes.com/pd/Gold-Bond-...-ft-x-8-ft-PURPLE-XP-Drywall-Panel/1002062128 which is 4'x8'. I will be painting/sealing it up.
I was thinking of going with this tape: https://www.lowes.com/pd/Saint-Goba...onstruction-Self-Adhesive-Joint-Tape/50183375 or this Fibafuse stuff https://www.lowes.com/pd/Saint-Goba...x-250-ft-Mesh-Construction-Joint-Tape/4411371
I think it would work with either option of board. Also thinking of getting Drylok paint but considering using flex seal in the corners and over the screws. The tape doesn't require mud to adhere-- it is self-adhering, but I'm pretty sure I need to put something over the tape.

So, any suggestions on this?

 

[RedneckGrump]

Hello @zannej
I am a little high on drugs at the moment, wasn't a good day for pain... I have some stuff in the garage for waterproofing the tub or shower walls... Two coats and NO moisture will make it to the inner wall... I am so sure of this stuff, I didn't go with cement board... Went strictly with drywall... Did my last house like that... and had a tub, and shower separate... and never had a moisture or mould problem... It was very expensive... But I am sure in the States it's affordable... I will get the name of it for you tomorrow, and in case I forget this conversation, Just give me a little kick...
Chow~~
me

 

[Ron Van]

I'm going to need new walls around my tub/shower. Found a potential one but its' out of stock. 59" and I have a 60" space but I can make it 59" or thereabouts with some cementboard. Might still look and see what they have in stock locally at the hardware store. I'm looking at glue-up stuff.

It seems that 60" surrounds are more common like this one from Lowes;

https://www.lowes.com/pd/allen-roth-48-inX34-inX78-in-Shower-Wall-in-Carrara-White/5001743621

It can be installed over cement board, drywall or even old tile (if it's flat).

I think it would work with either option of board. Also thinking of getting Drylok paint but considering using flex seal in the corners and over the screws. The tape doesn't require mud to adhere-- it is self-adhering, but I'm pretty sure I need to put something over the tape.

Yes. Here's a good video on a shower install.



The waterproof membrane RedNeckGrump was thinking of is RedGuard, or from Lowes it's called AquaDefense. You paint it on with a roller or brush (usually two coats) and it's bulletproof. I used Red Guard on a bath remodel in our old house and again on a kitchen remodel in our current house.


View attachment IMG_0612a - edit.jpg

This shower turned out beautiful but it was very expensive.



Here you can see the pex plumbing of the Hansgrohe iBox rough in for the shower valve.




I used cement board and red guard on the entire floor before tiling it. I know now that I should have sealed the screw holes. Oh well, maybe next time.




This was a custom corian shower surround that was marvelous but cost $8K. The glass was another couple K. My challenge now is to build two new baths in our current home, that looks nice, for way less! I'm looking at off the shelf solid panels that glue to cement board. I will use the waterproof membrane over the cement board.



I finished this just before covid hit. At that time, my wife said, "We're moving out of this state!" and here we are in Alabama starting a new project!


Original Bath. The shower was leaking out of the hinge side of the crappy little door and rotted a hole in the floor that I had to fix during the re-model. You can see the discolored linoleum. I vowed to waterproof the heck out of everything.




I ended up cutting the wall back and replacing the floor sheathing here where the shower door leaked. This is what happens when showers are not waterproofed properly.


This is where the floor rot was. The wall was cut back and then extended later. The flooring around the toilet had to be replaced as well.

 

[Ron Van]

I cut out the rotted area around the toilet flange






Cut the flange off.




I had to build a frame for the new floor sheathing to rest on.



Tiled around it

I used a Culwell Floor protecting toilet flange. I may have gone overboard but I was determined to waterproof this bathroom!



There is no way for water to get to the floor even if the wax ring fails. I used red Guard all around the flange before I tiled.


This is a two piece toilet. The top part of the toilet sits on top of the plastic bottom gizmo. It's pretty nice to be able to see the toilet piece on the wax ring before setting the toilet on it.









I liked the two piece toilet for the ease of installation but my wife liked the smooth sides on the base for ease of cleaning.




I've installed three of these toilets so far and no complaints.

 

[Ron Van]

This picture didn't post properly above. It's the Red Guard treatment over the sheetrock. The solid surface shower surround doesn't require cement board.




Because of the surround that was used on this project, there is no way for water to escape the surround system. On my next shower install, that may not be the case so I will waterproof a little better before installing the surround.




They used foam under the corian shower pan (which was very ridgid). A 2" compression type drain was used.



The corian was glued to the wall but notice the sheet is not full height yet.





The top section was glued on to the the bottom section like a coutertop would be done.






Then, corner pieces were glued (bonded) in.





Then they used a special router to make a radius in the corners making it appear like a solid one piece surround.



The seams were invisible. They glued the grab handle and shelves in place. Whatever they used to glue it, it was solid. You could hang on those shelves. The bottom shelf was for my wife to put her foot on to shave her legs. Notice the concealed drain.



The dogs are inspecting the work. You may recognize them from my kitchen remodel post in our new home.




We were using the old shower right up to the last minute during this remodel. This photo shows a vent line in the pony wall (that was removed). That vent line replacement became the biggest challenge of the entire remodel. Like I mentioned before, Vent lines take up the majority of the plumbing code because they are complex!

 

[zannej]

Redneck, any sort of building supplies are expensive in my area. I wonder if just the Drylok will work or flex seal. Looked it up and red guard isn't carried locally. Aqua Defense or something from Mapei is though. It's expensive. I'd have to compare prices with something like Drylok. I still plan to use the purple board since I'm familiar with it & we've used it before at my friend's house.

I want to get a decent surround but want to stay under $400 if possible. I like plain white.

Ron, thank you for the pictures and input. That closet flange is very cool. I wonder if it fits inside a 4" hub or just inside regular 4" pipe. Found one on ebay "new" for $15. Might jump on it and order it. I wonder if they have more than one and if I should get one for each bathroom. I also wonder what installation procedure is for surface mount on a floor with vinyl sheet.

I found specs for my toilet and decided that a pressure treated 2x12 can work as a platform to lift it a little higher. It will make it the same height as my friend's toilet. I can set the other toilet on it, trace the shape, mark the bolt-holes to line up the flange, cut a hole for the drain, use 4" screws to anchor the flange to the platform & the toilet (after painting the board). So, it's more of a board than a platform.

Cat presented my face with his butt and made me lose my train of thought. Then another one bounced in here and accidentally cut my lip with a claw on his back foot.

I forgot to comment on the video of Jeff. I have been watching a lot of his videos. He's entertaining. bonus points for him quoting Red Green.

 

[zannej]

I found your review on Amazon, Ron. I thought the pictures looked familiar. Mom's bathroom has the same thing going on with a joist/beam being close to the flange. It's what stopped the toilet from entirely falling through the floor when the subfloor gave in. Looks like the A43 is sold out or only sold in massive packs instead of single. I'm hoping the 4" one could still work. https://www.ebay.com/p/698152018

 

[Ron Van]

I found your review on Amazon, Ron. I thought the pictures looked familiar.

How ‘bout that! I didn’t think anyone would ever see that review!

 

[Ron Van]

That’s a good price for the culwell flange. The flange should be above the surrounding floor by 1/4”. If not, there are flange extensions you can get.

 

[zannej]

I plan to sit the ring flush on the surface and I think that nylon ring will bring it up high enough. The better than wax seal has enough of a cushion to make it fit right.
Last night I started feeling sick from smelling sewer gases coming from my bathroom. Went in and moved a bunch of stuff out, poured a bunch of water down the drain to try to fill the S-trap but it got siphoned right out. The bathtub plug had slipped out so I put it back in and put something on to of it to hold it in place. Feld a bad headache and cruddy afterward but no more sewer gas smell. But that is plugged up for now at least.

 

[Ron Van]

Last night I started feeling sick from smelling sewer gases coming from my bathroom. Went in and moved a bunch of stuff out, poured a bunch of water down the drain to try to fill the S-trap but it got siphoned right out.

A proper vent prevents a siphon in the S (Or P) trap. Here’s an article on why S traps aren’t used anymore.

S-Trap vs. P-Trap: The Drain Line Savior

These traps are crucial for your plumbing system.

www.lloydsplumbing.net

I converted our kitchen S trap to a P trap and installed a AAV (Air admittance valve).

A tub might be harder. I’m not sure because I don’t know how yours is plumbed. One of my tubs goes directly into the crawlspace but is a P trap

 

[zannej]

I have an above-the-floor drain and they cut through one of the floor joists completely to run the drain because the builders were morons. None of the fixtures in my house have proper vents. The plumber tried to add circuit vents but they don't necessarily help. Keep in mind the people who built this house installed carpet in the bathrooms, reversed polarity on the outlets, and didn't have grounding wires in 3 prong outlets.
AAVs used to be against plumbing code in this state but in 2016 the code was reverted to IPC 2012. From what I've been told, AAVs are not ideal with septic tank systems. But I may use them. My mother's toilet has the wrong fittings but branches off to a vent inside my wall but I know it doesn't go through the roof and I didn't see any signs that it connected to the main vent stack (the only vent through the roof) on the opposite side of the house. So, my guess is that it either terminates inside the wall or in the attic. I don't have a ladder the right size to safely climb up in the attic to look- even if I stand on the very top of the ladder- which I don't trust doing.

I bought two of those flanges. They only had the 4" version but that should be ok. If I need to cut a larger hole in my bathroom floor there is enough space to do so because the leveling mix goes around the flange but not under it. I wanted to buy 3 but the seller only had 2.

Ron, link to your review (or at least the reviews for the flange which is out of stock on amazon) Amazon.com: Customer reviews: Culwell A43 Floor Protecting Toilet Flange, 4" x 3"

The 3" and 4" versions are also on Ebay for $19 but are "open box". Open box often means something is missing even if they don't mention it. Although, we bought "new" stuff that was open box/used before.

 

[Ron Van]

I've been told, AAVs are not ideal with septic tank systems. But I may use them.

I haven't heard this about AAV and septic. I also have septic and have an AAV (Air Admittance Valve in lieu of a vent to open air). If you have any info on why it is not advised to use AAV in a septic system, I'd be interested in knowing about it.

I don't have a ladder the right size to safely climb up in the attic to look- even if I stand on the very top of the ladder- which I don't trust doing.

Be careful with the ladder! I was trimming a crape myrtle earlier this year and a branch I was cutting slapped me off the ladder. My head hit a rough brick wall and the end result was 7 staples in my head. The worst part was I tore the rotator cuff in my left arm and will require surgery. The surgery has a long recovery period, so I'm putting it off for now. When I got home from the ER, I went out and finished the job. I topped a total of 12 trees that day. And yes, they grew back beautifully this summer.

 

[Eddie_T]

@Ron Van I had never ventured a look at skirted toilets just assuming they mounted the standard archaic way. The Kohler mounting technique is clever. Maybe other mfgrs will take the hint. So far I am sticking with my old Kohler Rochelle single piece toilets because I like their appearance and they are color matched. I think they are about a six gallon flush and I paid $186 for a new mechanism for one of them. I have one in avocado green and one in black. In those days colored and patterned toilet tissue were popular as well

 

[zannej]

Ron-- ouch! I'm glad you're ok. After a few mini-strokes my dad got up on a ladder to cut a branch- that the ladder was leaning on. Fell and broke his ribs. I wish I'd been out there to point out his error before he fell. Another time he was riding his tractor under a tree. The rollbar pushed a branch out of the way but it snapped back and slapped him in the back- cracking some vertebrae and knocking him off his tractor.

From what I read the methane from the septic tank can cause the flap in the AAV to deteriorate. But upon further reading, so long as the septic tank has at least one atmospheric vent (like the one that goes through my roof) it should be able to vent out the methane without destroying the AAVs.

Eddie, The skirted toilets look neat but I've seen some that are a nightmare to install and very difficult to access the bolts. I wish I had a picture but we used to have an avocado green toilet. We were going to donate it to something like a Re-Store but we had set it outside and the a-hole horse kicked it over (on purpose) and shattered it. That horse LOVED to break things. We found out pretty quick why his previous owners sold him for so cheap.

 

[zannej]

I believe I've found a solution for some of the gaps in the bathrooms & maybe even in the kitchen. Instatrim is looking interesting. Kitchen really needs it and I think I can use it around the perimeter of my tub and the back of my vanity.
Thinking of getting this tub surround: MUSTEE Durawall 30 in. x 60 in. x 58 in. 3-Piece Easy Up Adhesive Alcove Bath Tub Surround in White 350WHT - The Home Depot

It's glue-up and I have a Delta corner shelf grab bar I can put in. Which is why I want the squared off corners. My current shower has these ugly yellowed built-in shelves and there are a total of 4 & are pretty shallow. In addition to the grab bar shelf, I want to add more shelving-- thinking a tension rod style shelf thingy might work. I also plan to keep my existing shower curtain rod to put against the back wall and I can add little hooks or something to hang stuff like back scrubbers. I'm seriously thinking of getting some soap & shampoo dispensers to mount to the shower wall on the side with the grab bar instead of having bottles in the shower.


I may frame out the top and side edges of the shower with some sort of vinyl chair rail trim or something.
I'm currently trying to decide which item to get for corner shelves.

Additionally, I was thinking of adhering some aluminium L stock to the edges of the tub to make a flange of sorts to direct water into the tub should there be any leaks. I don't really like the fugly glue-up trim that is on there now and he caulk underneath it looks like hot glue.

 

[Ron Van]

@zannej That looks like it would work well!