Improper plumbing & trying to remodel bathroom/laundry

[zannej]

I just realized that from the back wall to front of my tub its' about 31" and the actual dimensions of the side walls are 29". But, I plan to use waterproof paint on the edges and I will have the curtain drawn so water shouldn't splash those last 2" of wall at the edge of the tub. The existing surround doesn't go all the way to the edge either.

I decided to do an approximation of the upper wall detail in Mom's bathroom. I didn't measure so its all guessing. I did some editing to make the walls closer to what they actually look like now. The printed wood paneling with green stripes. I just popped in the proposed new shower.


Top view with as close as I could get to existing colors (with exception to shower bc its a big ugly green monstrosity).


I'm trying to decide if the controls should be above the grab bar shelf or below.
I couldn't find a showerhead like the one that will be in there. It has a slidebar on it that is 19" long and extends down from the bottom of the fixed showerhead.

 

[zannej]

I got bored and decided to plug in the closest I could find to the fugly shower-tub we currently have. This is much cleaner than the existing bathroom, but it is the general layout.

 

[Ron Van]

I decided to do an approximation of the upper wall detail in Mom's bathroom. I didn't measure so its all guessing. I did some editing to make the walls closer to what they actually look like now. The printed wood paneling with green stripes. I just popped in the proposed new shower.

Looks like it should be nice!

 

[zannej]

Looks like it should be nice!

Thanks. It is neat but the corners don't align correctly- probably because the walls aren't square. LOL. But its better than nothing. I'm going to paint it all when we redo the bathroom. Still undecided on the grab bar / shower trim situation and on how to handle that angled piece on the wall when I put up some sort of cementboard.

 

[zannej]

I pestered my buddy into helping me go get the shower surround from HD yesterday. I bought him Taco Bell to make up for it. The box was a bit crushed on one side and the corner was messed up, but from what I could see inside there didn't appear to be any damage. The wallset is sturdier than I thought it would be. It also looks somewhat off-white or ivory. I'm hoping its the lighting or the plastic around it. If not, I can live with it.


Now I need to get some cement board and figure out what type of mud to use on it. I don't want something too heavy or messy. I want something that can be painted over.

 

[havasu]

Mud for the cement board? for the screw holes? The seams?

You've mentioned painting over this "mud" a few times. I'm still confused as to exactly what you are going to paint, since this is not the medium to be painting.

 

[ekrig]

@zannej - Perhaps I misunderstand also, but should you be using a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board? It is applied as if one is painting, so maybe that's what you mean. Anyway, that's what I would do.

 

[zannej]

Sorry, not "mud". The mfr of the cementboard calls for "modified thinset" to be placed over the tape. I would put the tape over all of the screws, seams and joints. The cementboard will stick up above the tub surround that will be glued to it so it will have to be covered. I hate tile so I will not be putting tile over anything. The option is to paint over the cementboard. The waterproof membranes are expensive and I was hoping some latex paint would work. Some sort of Killz or something.
The glue up walls have to be adhered to cementboard (drywall won't work).
I hope I'm making sense. My brain is a bit fuzzy from being sick.

 

[havasu]

If this surround is 100% waterproof, just use green or purple board all the way up. Easier to work with, cheaper materials, looks better finished, and lighter.

 

[ekrig]

I'm doing a bathroom remodel right now. Even if using tile, the mold resistant (green or purple) drywall with waterproofing membrane would be considered good. Either way, you should follow the manufacturer's instruction. On the plus side, cement board is smaller and fits in my SUV.

The waterproof membranes are expensive and I was hoping some latex paint would work. Some sort of Killz or something.

Not cheap, I agree. That said, last time I checked a gallon of paint or Killz was going for around $45. Ouch! The waterproofing membrane was only 10 bucks more.

 

[havasu]

Such as RedGard?

 

[ekrig]

I was thinking of Mapei Aquadefense, which is equivalent to RedGard. It is showing on Lowe's website for $58.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/MAPEI-Mapelastic-Aquadefense-1-Gallon-Liquid-Membrane/5014036803RedGard is showing for $75 on HD website.

I stand corrected on the prices I mentioned earlier. Kilz is showing available for $40, so Aquadefense at $58 is 45% more :|
Personally, I think that water protection is not the kind the thing to try to be original just to save 20 bucks. If it is not done right, one will have to tear down and redo, which will cost much, much more than than. But hey, that's me...

By the way, the waterproofing membrane can, and I believe should, be used over cement board as well _when using tile_. I agree with @havasu that, if the surround is waterproof it seems overkill though. On second thought, @zannej may be talking about painting over the cement board on the other parts of the bathroom and I misunderstood. If that's the case, note that drywall, even the green or purple, is cheaper than cement board and easier to spackle the joints and pretty much use any primer from that point.

 

[zannej]

The manufacturer of the purple board said that it is not suitable for glue up surrounds (I think because the coating will delaminate). They said cementboard was the appropriate medium for the glue up surround. The manufacturer for the surround also said to use cementboard.

I am talking about painting the surfaces around the surround. The boards underneath the surround should be safe. I wonder if there is some sort of waterproofing in small containers that I could use on just the edges of the cementboard (like the bottom where it is near the tub). I don't want to spend $50 on a big container and then just use a little bit.

I saw a video of someone installing cementboard and some of it looked like it had a rough texture on the outside. Is that usual? I don't think I've really looked at it up close to notice the texture. Is that why it would look bad when painted?

I was looking at Youtube and some people used the thinset over the transition from cementboard to drywall but recommended going over the drywall side with drywall mud.

I'll have to price out the Killz. I have a bucket of bright white Killz in satin but I want to go with semi-gloss to have it be a little smoother.

 

[zannej]

I'm trying to find a premixed thinset that meets the ansi standards for the cementboard. Needs to be "modified" thinset with latex infused. The surround will cover the corners for the most part so I don't need to worry about sealing it behind the surround. I found a solution for the edges: ClarkDietrich 1/2 in. x 10 ft. Vinyl Rip Bead L-Trim 1/2 VLZL-10 - The Home Depot

It is designed for ceilings but customers said they used it for shower wall edges. It has the tear away part to keep the thinset from going around the corner. I can glue that up and it will protect the edges a bit.
I found the screws to use as well. Just have to price everything out, make the orders and go pick stuff up. I might take the hit and buy the purple board locally instead of going an hour away. Shorter trip and less chance of damage. Plus they will help me secure it.

 

[Ron Van]

. . . The cementboard will stick up above the tub surround that will be glued to it so it will have to be covered. I hate tile so I will not be putting tile over anything. The option is to paint over the cementboard. The waterproof membranes are expensive and I was hoping some latex paint would work. Some sort of Killz or something.
The glue up walls have to be adhered to cementboard (drywall won't work).
I hope I'm making sense. My brain is a bit fuzzy from being sick.

I think it is normal to stop the cement board short of the top of the surround (just a couple of inches) and begin the greenboard. The surround will still be mostly secured to the cement board but the transition will be covered by the surround. Cement board is hard to finish. The area above your surround is not an area to worry too much about water damage but you can Red Guard it if you want, however, Kiltz and a good coat of semi-gloss is probably sufficient.

 

[Eddie_T]

This all sounds too complicated for some reason. I have a fiberglass tub/shower nailed directly to studs with drywall between top of enclosure and ceiling. It's never presented a problem. BILs installed a tub surround from Lowe's directly over what looked like cracked linoleum in MIL's old house with no problems.

 

[havasu]

I believe this is a flimsy walled, panel makeover. Z advised it needed to be glued to a hard surface at several support points, and why some sort of backer is needed. Her concern is the dealing with the mastics, thinsets, and the drywall mud, and would like to shortcut some of the mediums necessary for this to turn out solid and long lasting. I myself would forego this cheap panel, install durock to the ceiling, and get a cheap tile and just tile it all the way up.

 

[zannej]

Havasu is correct that this has to be glued to cement board (they specifically said cement board in the installation instructions and mfr recommendations). I asked about it on the HD website and mfr responded that it needed the solid support that wouldn't delaminate.

I think I have it figured out. Maybe hairbrained, but that trim I linked can be used for transitions to other mediums. It is thick enough to cover the edge of the cement board. It can be stapled to drywall or it can be glued on. I have spray adhesive, and the thinset/mudding should also help hold it on. Absolute worst case I could use cement board screws in a few spots that will be covered by the thinset and wallset.

I realize that not all work can be done in one day since I will need to give things time to dry.

My hairbrained plan:
Go to stores to pick up supplies/materials
Sort out the plumbing valves & controls and such (I should have everything I need already)
Make template out of cardboard for holes that need to be cut
Put plastic sheets up on walls over studs so wood will not be in direct contact with cement board
Run cement board up to the height of the new surround (58").
Paint Mapei AquaDefense on all edges that will not get thinset and around any holes cut
Cut it off just above the surround-- enough to put the tear away trim on.
Run sides of side wall cement board out to end of wall on the right and same distance on the left
Use tear away trim at edges
Use trimmed off cementboard to go down just above floor next to tub (may need to add some blocking in wall for reinforcement)
Use leftover tear away beads next to tub side
Spread thinset (still trying to decide on type-- need modified thinset)
Use aquadefense over thinset in corners, top, and bottom perimeter as extra precaution
Glue up surround
Paint drylok on any exposed pieces of cement board to be painted over with Killz later
Trim existing 1/4" printed plywood panels above surround enough to put up 3.5" PVC boards
Drill hole in middle of PVC board on right wall for showerhead (need to get correct sized bit for boring through)
Put pvc boards up on side edges of shower to cover exposed painted cement board

I know it is a lot of work, but I'm hoping things will go smoothly. I may have to shim behind some walls to make sure everything is straight so I'll pick up some shims. I need to make sure I find all of my tools and materials that I already have at home before picking stuff up.

I'm limited to the thinset options available at home depot or lowes in Alexandria - zipcode 71303. Anyone have suggestions? I don't want it to dry too fast to work with, but still want it to dry fast enough to be able to move on to sanding. Dry time maybe 45min to an hour? Even 30min might be enough. Gotta ask my friend how fast he is at mudding.

Is thinset about the same as drywall mud in terms of application?

 

[zannej]

I think I found the thinset to use. It meets the standards and dries faster.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/MAPEI-Rapid-Setting-50-lb-Gray-Thinset-Tile-Mortar/5014025091
This is the tub more cleared out. The right side is actually cleared out more than it looks. There's just some paper and a pack of seran wrap. The plunger is there to keep sewer gases from coming up from the drain. I will have to get a tub stopper to plop in there for when we are working on stuff.

 

[Ron Van]

I don't remember if you mentioned this before or not but are you going to replace the shower valve/diverter? This is the time to do it.